00:02:58 -!- sbok [n=kobs@you.cant.haxit.org] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:03:00 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:06 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:03:42 _jpl_ [n=John@dhcp-vpn-2-7.ucsc.edu] has joined #lisp 00:03:43 -!- dublpaws [n=none@209-20-72-61.slicehost.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:03:46 dublpaws [n=none@209-20-72-61.slicehost.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:00 sbok [n=kobs@you.cant.haxit.org] has joined #lisp 00:04:33 lol 00:05:52 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 00:06:18 -!- gonzojive [n=red@DNab42393a.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 00:06:54 -!- sellout is now known as Guest71463 00:07:57 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:08:23 sellout- [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:09:02 -!- facetious [n=facetiou@66.92.130.200] has quit ["Bye"] 00:13:23 -!- jpcooper [n=justin@unaffiliated/jpcooper] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:13:30 elurin [n=user@85.104.132.54] has joined #lisp 00:14:16 NoorDextor: ? 00:22:17 AshyIsMe [n=User@b415.adsl.ecomtel.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:23:08 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 00:26:18 -!- Guest71463 [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:28:06 -!- edon [n=edon@albalug/edon] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:29:45 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.108.7] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:32:35 Tordek [n=tordek@host67.190-227-44.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 00:37:54 -!- sellout- is now known as sellout 00:38:51 -!- srcerer [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:39:25 rvirding [n=chatzill@h235n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 00:40:30 -!- kzar [n=kzar@hardwick.demon.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:41:17 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:41:20 dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 00:41:55 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 00:42:17 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:46:14 srcerer [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 00:47:30 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:49:27 -!- kidd [n=kidd@167.Red-79-147-12.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["WeeChat 0.2.6"] 00:54:03 -!- drdo` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:54:48 -!- jfrancis [n=jfrancis@72.14.224.1] has quit [] 00:55:43 -!- lichtblau [n=user@port-83-236-3-70.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:55:52 jtoy [n=jtoy@58.63.87.160] has joined #lisp 00:56:30 -!- nullwork_ [n=nullwork@c-24-245-23-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 00:56:30 -!- nullwork [n=kyle@c-24-245-23-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:57:13 nullwork [n=kyle@c-24-245-23-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:58:16 lichtblau [n=user@port-83-236-3-70.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 01:03:37 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 01:07:12 -!- jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:08:41 -!- nullwork [n=kyle@c-24-245-23-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:09:26 nullwork [n=kyle@c-24-245-23-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:09:31 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483FFC9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 01:09:40 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-200-2-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 01:10:14 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 01:10:42 Balooga: hi 01:12:42 a-s` [n=user@92.80.103.234] has joined #lisp 01:15:52 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-211-94-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 01:16:01 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:17:25 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 01:19:37 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:19:54 Oh, cute. I see what happened with BKPT instructions. 01:20:08 They cause a prefetch abort, which the kernel treats as a page fault. 01:20:31 So, of course, there's no problem with the mapping, and it just restarts the instruction... 01:23:54 fusss [n=chatzill@pool-72-66-40-106.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:24:04 greetings! 01:24:27 anyone know of a (semi) complete CFFI bindings for win32? 01:24:45 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Connection timed out] 01:25:06 there gotta be something like osicat, but for Windows; at least a CFFIied Windows.h 01:25:29 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 01:25:42 Lispbuilder-windows has one but it's not complete. 01:26:30 i will need some feedback on the existing gtk bindings as well 01:29:29 lambda-gtk seems good enough 01:29:47 maybe http://common-lisp.net/project/graphic-forms/ 01:31:11 fusss: osicat's git repository has a win32 module, feel free to improve it. 01:31:48 the great majority of the win32 api i want to use 100% GU related 01:31:58 i hacked on mingw before 01:32:23 nyef: Hi. Did you see my /msg earlier? 01:32:42 i can add win32-osicat to my todo list, but now i'm just in leech mode, at least til i finish my project :-P 01:33:20 win32 GetModuleHandle, SendMessage and GetDlgItem don't make sense in a POSIX interface 01:35:08 -!- tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-48-200.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [No route to host] 01:35:48 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:35:54 *fusss* thinks people should start to convert to cffi wholesale and move from vendor ffis. 01:36:16 tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:36:49 *foom* thinks that SBCL should adopt CFFI as its official FFI if CFFI is so awesome everyone should always use it. 01:37:02 stassats [n=stassats@ppp78-37-14-117.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 01:37:03 Pascal Costanza just wrote like the longest log entry ever (1328 bytes of prose) for a closer-mop patch 01:37:08 I'll never give up my #_ 01:38:12 -!- _jpl_ [n=John@dhcp-vpn-2-7.ucsc.edu] has left #lisp 01:39:09 bighouse [n=bighouse@modemcable012.160-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 01:41:51 cool .. the patch fixes a bug wrt. contextl in sbcl 01:45:31 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 01:47:42 kbd____ [n=kbd_@58.41.14.116] has joined #lisp 01:48:12 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 01:48:35 -!- elurin [n=user@85.104.132.54] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:48:57 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:52:34 -!- AshyIsMe [n=User@b415.adsl.ecomtel.com.au] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:53:56 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-229-68.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 01:58:59 -!- BrianRice-mb [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-174.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 01:59:45 -!- spiderbyte [n=dcl@unaffiliated/dcl] has quit ["WeeChat 0.2.6"] 02:00:25 spiderbyte [n=dcl@unaffiliated/dcl] has joined #lisp 02:03:28 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:03:55 peterc [n=pc@134.7.95.68] has joined #lisp 02:06:44 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 02:06:54 i use SBCL and i have downloaded the LISPBUILDER-SDL latest subversion to ~/src/lispbuilder , I would like to have ASDF-INSTALL install it for me, but i'm not sure how to do this from just having the folder, can someone offer a suggestion? 02:07:01 i would like it installed as a local user thing 02:07:04 not system-wide 02:07:16 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [No route to host] 02:07:43 epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has joined #lisp 02:08:50 dto: you don't need asdf-install to install already downloaded sources, just sym-link .asd file into the central register directory 02:09:04 there are a zillion .asd files in lispbuilder, i'll try using find 02:09:16 dto: i'm using lispbuilder-sdl right now, on Windows. what are you running it on? 02:09:21 debian linux 02:09:21 dto: link them all 02:09:25 unix? 02:09:45 dto: you don't need to make any symlinks, if you do it my lazy way :-) 02:09:54 hi folks. i'm new to Lisp but have used Tcl for a long while. anyone have suggestions for a good book on Lisp? 02:10:05 minion: tell peterc about pcl 02:10:06 peterc: please see pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 02:10:26 cheers drewc 02:10:33 dto: first, choose an easy location where you want to place all your downloaded lisp packages 02:10:44 peterc: happy to oblige :) 02:10:59 don't put them in /usr/local/lib/sbcl, for example, because you will quickly realize you might need to experiment with another lisp 02:11:29 ah perfect it's all compiling 02:11:40 atm, i have a library copy of LISPcraft by Robert Wilensky, which isn't bad. but i'll have to hand it back eventually 02:12:24 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 02:12:44 it's also using examples from Franz Lisp, which may not be quite where Common Lisp is these days :) 02:12:45 and it is slightly old, isn't it? 02:12:59 dcl [n=dcl@unaffiliated/dcl] has joined #lisp 02:13:00 yellowed pages even ;) 02:13:06 I'd say that's more than "slightly" old. 02:13:08 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless119.cs.wisc.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:13:13 lisppaste broken atm 02:13:18 ;; add this to your .sbclrc 02:13:20 (require :asdf) 02:13:21 (dolist (dir (directory "/home/dto/my-downloaded-lisp-file/*/")) 02:13:23 fusss: Works for me. 02:13:23 (pushnew (make-pathname :directory (pathname-directory dir) :type "asd") 02:13:24 asdf:*central-registry*)) 02:13:33 (C) 1984 according to the notice. 02:13:59 nicely written though, i give it that. 02:14:31 peterc: That is interesting as a historical artifact, but I would really, strongly finding a more up to date source (such as the aforementioned Practical Common Lisp) :-) 02:14:37 -!- spiderbyte [n=dcl@unaffiliated/dcl] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 02:14:40 fusss: Can you say what is "broken" about lisppaste? 02:14:51 chandler: indeed. exactly why i asked :) 02:15:16 peterc: there is a second editon "common lispcraft" 02:15:18 chandler: when i click submit, i get a blank page, and when i return it says "captcha already used, did you click the back button" 02:15:19 -!- dcl is now known as spiderbyte 02:15:47 Hm. 02:15:51 -!- minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Common Lisp IRC library - http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc"] 02:15:51 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Common Lisp IRC library - http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc"] 02:16:02 fusss: regardless of the state of lisppaste, don't paste more than one line in the channel.. k? :) 02:16:33 drewc: interesting. two good books to chase up :) 02:16:45 peterc: cannot recommend it either way though ... PCL and PAIP are what you want to read. 02:16:46 echo-area [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-77e4abd7ee97135a] has joined #lisp 02:17:00 then maybe SICP, and you're good! 02:17:03 PAIP? 02:17:16 minion: PAIP? 02:17:22 oh, he's gone. 02:17:32 cliki.net/PAIP 02:18:47 cheers 02:19:13 oh, and AMOP.. one must read AMOP. 02:19:35 http://www.cliki.net/AMOP 02:19:46 PAIP is surprisingly expensive. 02:20:15 it's an incredible value .. some people spend 4 years in compsci and learn less than i learned from PAIP. 02:20:34 because of thousand pages or so? 02:20:41 huh. What kind of stuff are you talking about? O.o 02:21:04 abstraction. wonderful clean lispy abstraction. 02:21:22 I mean more in terms of general CS stuff than just lispy abstraction 02:21:43 schme_ [n=marcus@c83-254-190-108.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 02:21:52 how to apply wonderful lispy abstraction to CS stuff! 02:22:15 drewc: googlit 02:22:20 err nvm 02:22:34 -!- timchen119 is now known as nasloc__ 02:22:35 the chapters on implementing a scheme interpreter/compiler, for one, are excellent. 02:27:00 lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 02:28:17 minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 02:28:19 *peterc* putting in recommendations for the uni library to pick up copies of PCL and PAIP right now, even if i but personal copies later. 02:28:38 -!- emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:28:57 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:29:56 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 02:30:27 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 02:30:40 cltl2 function-information 02:30:40 http://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/clm/node102.html 02:30:53 cltl2-section Compiler Macros 02:30:53 http://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/clm/node101.html 02:31:13 locklace: tada! 02:33:16 hefner [n=hefner@c-68-50-101-139.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:33:34 -!- schme [n=marcus@c83-254-190-108.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:35:25 perhaps a silly question, but, does common lisp have any gui toolkit bindings? (tk, etc?) 02:35:58 peterc: there's several. Check out cliki. 02:36:27 excellent stuff :) 02:37:42 and the cliki has a Recent Changes page. always good :) 02:37:45 minion: please show peterc Graphics Toolkit 02:37:46 peterc: have a look at Graphics Toolkit: CLiki pages about X11 graphics toolkits. http://www.cliki.net/Graphics%20Toolkit 02:39:22 How nicely would optical character recognition work with PAIP? I'm blind, and it's not available in an accessible format, I believe. 02:40:05 peterc: ltk does Tk, but it's a little too Tkish. lambda-gtk works very well for gtk on unix (so much so that i'm building for gtk Windows right now and i can tell it wont take too much work) 02:40:27 clTcl looks very nice from my perspective. 02:40:31 I'm thinking that Lisp syntax wouldn't give OCR too many fits, because it is so regular. 02:41:07 peterc: The 800-pound bazooka in the room is McCLIM: 02:41:11 minion: tell peterc about McCLIM 02:41:12 peterc: please look at McCLIM: McCLIM is Mike McDonald's Free and portable implementation of CLIM, the Common Lisp ueber-Graphics Toolkit and a Common Lisp Library. http://www.cliki.net/McCLIM 02:42:00 cbrannon: it's just a regular book; if you were able to OCR any other technical book, PAIP shouldn't give you too much trouble 02:42:06 -!- lemonodor [n=lemonodo@66.43.112.62] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:42:27 chandler: software floating-point = non-conforming CL implementation? really? 02:42:39 cbrannon: it doesn't have graphics or equation; just code and prose 02:42:39 froydnj: er, that's not what I meant to say :-) 02:42:50 chandler: phew, good :) 02:43:08 froydnj: he seemed to want to eliminate FP in a way that made it broken 02:43:39 I think I'm too tired to be sending coherent emails at this point :-( 02:43:51 I understand the feeling :) 02:44:14 *peterc* snickers. wonder how many of my coworkers here would think using Tcl/Tk within Lisp would make things easier :) 02:45:09 HORRAY! 02:45:18 I got lambda-gtk working on Windows :-) 02:45:30 froydnj: I'm a bit surprised that anyone's using (or trying to use) SBCL on such a small system anyway. 02:45:38 thanks everyone, you've given me a great starting point. 02:46:18 and it's friken gorgeous 02:46:57 -!- rvirding [n=chatzill@h235n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092417]"] 02:47:33 Ok, this guy's confused. 02:48:43 chandler: maybe it's not a small system? 02:49:46 maybe, but I doubt it given what I've seen the 405EX used for in the past. 02:50:10 er, wha? these stfds are bad, but not the hundreds of others you could execute? 02:50:36 Yeah. I think he's using -msoft-float and thinking that because the runtime is compiled with that, he's going to be OK. 02:51:05 I can't talk to the 405 board at work (might not be an EX); the 440 here has 256MB RAM; I don't think of that as "small" 02:51:52 The 440 is bigger. I'd be surprised if his 405EX had more than 64MB. 02:53:40 Oh look, I'm probably wrong. 02:53:45 Time to call it a night, I think. 02:56:06 'night chandler 02:56:10 -!- ushdf [n=ushdf@syru217-183.syr.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 03:00:44 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 03:04:17 i would warn people against Tk interfaces, which are largely crappy and use a socket/pipe connection 03:04:33 be prepared to (force-output) and restart your lisp 03:05:11 lambda-gtk works for me in Windows, and feels as part of lisp as any builtin form :-) 03:06:36 btw, what's the usual license for lisp extensions/packages/modules? 03:07:03 (ie, BSD, LGPL, etc?) 03:07:08 LLGPL/MIT/BSD 03:07:20 we have our own "Lisp Lesser GPL" 03:07:48 because Lisp modules blur the line between static library and shared object 03:08:02 ah. sounds sensible. 03:08:34 GPL is sorta frowned upon, even Lisp implementations are relaxing it (like ECL did) 03:08:52 cool. i'm liking lisp more and more :) 03:08:52 bobrown [n=user@dsl081-198-234.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 03:09:18 sounds Tcl community-like in licensing, which is a good thing. 03:11:00 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:11:51 lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-15-172.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:13:57 in the past 2 weeks, SDL, OpenGL and Gtk working on Windows. time to figure out how to nest all these windows and graphics contexts :-) 03:14:28 oh, and vector drawing, and true type fonts, and portable networking, and sound mixer :-) 03:15:34 hectic! 03:15:55 sounds like a disaster waiting to happen :) 03:16:38 hefner: I think that pretty well describes all modern software. 03:17:02 rme: probably, yeah 03:17:02 not really. already figured out how to get SDL+Opengl 03:17:09 fusss: yeah, but that's *supposed* to work 03:17:40 for gtk, i can remove sdl the stick an opengl window in a gtk-gl graphics context 03:19:57 hefner: i gotta diff my changes to the cffi backends 03:19:57 clisp, win32 sbcl and corman all work for me 03:19:57 it's all a freak show 03:19:58 don't know if it'd be helpful, but, tcl3d.org is the current tcl sdl/opengl implimentation. BSD license and nicely cross-platform (win, mac, linux and irix) 03:23:16 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@pool-72-66-40-106.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:23:16 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-f1771bccb2495eba] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:23:16 tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:23:20 felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:23:23 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:23:35 fusss [n=chatzill@pool-72-66-40-106.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:23:52 -!- epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has quit ["  "] 03:24:16 hello 03:25:17 _sohail_ [n=Sohail@d207-81-121-15.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 03:26:11 hello felideon 03:28:40 -!- _sohail_ [n=Sohail@d207-81-121-15.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:28:54 _sohail_ [n=Sohail@d207-81-121-15.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 03:30:12 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 03:30:14 -!- _sohail_ is now known as sohail 03:30:19 -!- tltstc` [n=nine@192.207.69.1] has quit [] 03:31:50 would this be a good place for help with SLIME? 03:32:08 or what that be best with the emacs crod 03:32:10 crowd* 03:32:56 here is better, imo 03:33:06 cool 03:34:07 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:34:31 i just installed SBCL and SLIME 03:34:46 i have it working on another machine, so it's not the first time i do it. 03:35:04 but when i try to load up SLIME i get error messages, and it doesnt seem to compile SWANK 03:35:35 paste your error to lisppaste 03:35:39 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4db6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:35:41 lisppaste: url 03:35:42 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 03:35:42 what error message, and what OS? 03:35:46 k 03:36:25 Fedora 9.93 -- 2.6.27.4-68.fc10.i686 03:37:21 should i paste the whole thing or just the last part where it stops? 03:37:42 the whole is better 03:38:54 rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-56-108.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 03:39:35 felideon pasted "swank compile error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/69884 03:40:56 it complains it can't find swank-sbcl.fasl, but doesn't .slime get compiled? 03:41:43 your slime seems to bee too old, try to update it first 03:42:01 really? 03:42:14 it is more than one year old 03:42:18 ok. newbie question relating to the Hello World script on Wikipedia... 03:42:34 > (print "Hello World!") 03:42:34 "Hello World!" 03:42:47 how do i print Hello World without quote marks? 03:43:09 i got it from fairly stable cvs branch 03:43:10 (princ "Hello World!") is one way 03:43:13 oh ok 03:43:32 (format t "Hello World!") is another 03:43:41 wiat 03:43:52 dunno about the quotes 03:44:25 cheers felideon 03:44:33 felideon: no, your way is valid, if i correctly understood peterc 03:45:08 holymoo [n=biteme@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:46:39 *peterc* updates wikipedia. 03:47:29 stassats: is it better to delete the .slime directory after updating SLIME? 03:47:36 or does it not make a difference 03:48:15 felideon: i doubt it will, but i also doubt that you will need the old files 03:48:22 so you can delete it 03:48:44 ok 03:49:33 jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-19.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 03:50:26 stassats: hmm now i'm getting a different error hehe 03:50:40 *stassats* noticed that he has 100 mb of old slime fasls 03:51:01 felideon: so, comment your old paste 03:51:02 felideon annotated #69884 with "new error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/69884#1 03:51:08 lol 03:51:49 i made you realize you could clean that up 04:00:34 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:00:34 -!- fusss 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segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1C64D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:00:34 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:00:34 -!- xjrn [n=jim@c-69-181-213-99.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:00:34 -!- hugod [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1279442362.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:00:34 -!- jao [n=user@72.Red-79-155-244.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:00:34 -!- bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:00:34 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:00:34 -!- alexsuraci [n=Alex@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:02:05 it seems to be not compiling swank this time, don't know why 04:02:32 :( 04:02:53 can it be an issue with SBCL? 04:03:22 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-229-68.dsl.look.ca] has quit [] 04:03:44 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-229-68.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 04:04:25 w3asal [n=Student@govschool31.nomad.utk.edu] has joined #lisp 04:04:29 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-229-68.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 04:04:53 can be anything, i can only say that it works for me with sbcl-1.0.22.7 04:05:16 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-229-68.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 04:05:29 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 04:05:29 fusss [n=chatzill@pool-72-66-40-106.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:29 bobrown [n=user@dsl081-198-234.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:29 hefner [n=hefner@c-68-50-101-139.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:29 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:29 jao [n=user@72.Red-79-155-244.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:29 mathrick 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[n=Alex@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:29 sabetts [n=sabetts@S0106000a95700fd8.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:29 mikezor [n=mikael@c-a388e253.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 04:05:29 ZabaQ [n=ZabaQ@194-105-174-193.ifb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 04:05:29 p8m [n=dmm@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 04:05:29 delYsid [n=user@debian/developer/mlang] has joined #lisp 04:05:29 jkantz [n=jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 04:05:32 oh hey wait 04:05:35 guess what 04:05:42 i opened a new instance of Emacs and it works there 04:05:58 -!- mqt [i=tran@monaco.nirv.net] has quit [Success] 04:06:05 mqt [i=tran@monaco.nirv.net] has joined #lisp 04:06:10 oh, must be new version wasn't loaded 04:06:13 right 04:07:00 hey well thanks 04:07:34 oh yeah (format t "hello world") does print without quotes 04:08:43 :) 04:08:52 didnt quite remember 04:10:39 Good morning. 04:10:43 -!- binarycodes__ [n=sujoy@59.93.245.251] has quit [Connection timed out] 04:10:46 Good evening! 04:11:51 topo [n=topo@200.37.161.41] has joined #lisp 04:14:51 good 11:14PM! 04:16:03 good 7:15am 04:16:24 anyway, good day and good evening to you all 04:16:25 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:19:07 -!- felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 04:20:25 fuss pasted "do I need eval-when for this?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/69886 04:21:04 -!- xreyes_ [n=xreyes@8.84-48-175.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:21:11 xreyes_ [n=xreyes@8.84-48-175.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 04:24:38 -!- olejorgenb [i=bronner@gaupe.stud.ntnu.no] has left #lisp 04:28:15 stassats` [n=stassats@ppp91-122-105-94.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 04:29:23 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:30:25 danwhite 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quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:47:41 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 04:48:23 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 04:50:10 -!- rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-56-108.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 04:51:54 lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-15-172.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:52:28 NNshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-118.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 04:52:49 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-4-157.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:53:19 fusss: i'd use PROGV and READ-FROM-STRING if i had to do that... but what you are doing looks very wrong and there must be a better way 04:53:55 methinks an :after method for asdf's load-op :-) 04:55:23 i don't get how those specials could affect the loading of the system. unless they happen to be declared in the .asd, i think that :foo itself is in the wrong. 04:55:55 one should not require the users to bind specials in order to properly load the system! 04:58:53 hmmm 04:59:21 ushdf [n=ushdf@syru217-183.syr.edu] has joined #lisp 04:59:40 -!- lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-15-172.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 05:04:25 morning. 05:05:55 morning 05:06:56 -!- Wizard_ [n=wizard@94.50.181.200] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:06:58 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 05:07:24 Wizard_ [n=wizard@90.150.121.212] has joined #lisp 05:09:15 -!- segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1C64D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:09:26 segv__ [n=mb@p4FC1DC3F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:14:59 epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has joined #lisp 05:16:36 -!- danwhite [n=danwhite@ppp118-208-116-86.lns4.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:19:06 -!- w3asal [n=Student@govschool31.nomad.utk.edu] has left #lisp 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joined #lisp 05:40:32 -!- ushdf [n=ushdf@syru217-183.syr.edu] has left #lisp 05:44:20 -!- bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:45:19 -!- kbd____ [n=kbd_@58.41.14.116] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:46:48 bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:49:30 -!- Bzek [n=SK_sj@mcc-dyn-16-118.kosnet.ru] has quit [Connection timed out] 05:49:45 binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.176.156] has joined #lisp 05:49:50 -!- |Soulman| [n=kvirc@24.84-49-150.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:55:14 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:00:07 tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has joined #lisp 06:03:11 -!- blitz_ [n=blitz@77.64.176.244] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:08:18 appletizer [i=user@82-46-30-39.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #lisp 06:08:19 me-so-stupid [n=semka@77.236.84.166] has joined #lisp 06:09:09 Nate1975 [n=nate@cpe-76-88-157-74.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:09:15 hi 06:09:30 What should I do if I've forgotten my nickserv password? 06:09:59 I used the "sendpass" command and it says that I'm not authorized to perform this operation. 06:10:15 isn't it identify? 06:10:20 oh, nm 06:10:43 it's possible that i never gave an email address.... 06:10:51 -!- x6j8x [n=x6j8x@77.21.43.186] has quit [] 06:11:00 but i figured there'd be a nicer error message for that case instead of "you're not authorized to perform this operation" 06:11:11 Yeah. Talk to a freenode op. 06:11:33 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-106-128-43.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 06:12:26 how do I find one? my apologies...i rarely use IRC 06:13:43 I think they live on #freenode 06:14:04 k, thanks 06:16:04 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.110.15] has joined #lisp 06:19:27 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-229-68.dsl.look.ca] has quit ["Where is the glory in complying with demands?"] 06:22:19 -!- Nate1975 is now known as Nate75Sanders 06:23:06 aha! 06:23:10 I found a nice op to help me 06:23:12 -!- dublpaws [n=none@209-20-72-61.slicehost.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:23:15 dublpaws [n=none@209-20-72-61.slicehost.net] has joined #lisp 06:23:15 thanks a lot, guys 06:26:03 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.248.11] has joined #lisp 06:26:27 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-19.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:34:07 gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-76-254-23-192.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:34:20 -!- gigamonk` is now known as gigamonkey` 06:34:34 kb_d [n=kbd_@58.41.14.116] has joined #lisp 06:34:44 gonzojive_ [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 06:37:39 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:40:39 dakeyras [n=dakeyras@pool-98-117-125-63.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:45:05 k [n=kbd_@58.41.14.116] has joined #lisp 06:45:33 -!- k is now known as Guest59013 06:48:22 sunwukong [n=salvi@ortros.den.rcast.u-tokyo.ac.jp] has joined #lisp 06:49:02 -!- happycodemonkey [n=carriear@147.226.224.2] has quit [] 06:49:14 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:50:42 happycodemonkey [n=carriear@147.226.224.2] has joined #lisp 06:51:03 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 06:52:02 -!- echo-area [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-77e4abd7ee97135a] has quit [Connection timed out] 06:53:01 ffx` [n=tits@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 06:54:04 -!- k_bd [n=kbd_@58.41.14.116] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:54:39 the_unmaker [n=Administ@cpe-76-166-187-100.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:03:00 the_unmaker1 [n=Administ@cpe-76-166-187-100.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:03:33 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 07:05:10 -!- kb_d [n=kbd_@58.41.14.116] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:05:16 x6j8x [n=x6j8x@tmo-100-137.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #lisp 07:05:43 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:08:36 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:08:45 stassats` [n=stassats@ppp91-122-105-94.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 07:09:43 dshep [n=user@c-24-7-88-34.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:16:33 UnwashedMeme [n=nathan@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 07:16:48 tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 07:16:52 -!- the_unmaker [n=Administ@cpe-76-166-187-100.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:16:56 Greetings! 07:17:17 hi 07:17:22 any clos users in here? 07:17:27 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #lisp 07:17:42 Ask and I'll respond if I know the answer. 07:18:12 is there an oo webserver done in clos that does dynamic content and caches things in memory? 07:18:29 allegroserve does that 07:18:40 is it frreE? 07:18:49 runs ok on linux? 07:18:55 depends on what you mean by "free". it is llgpl 07:19:08 please use google now to find out more 07:19:27 -!- UnwashedMeme1 [n=nathan@216.155.97.1] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:19:44 the_unmaker1: Also look at cliki 07:19:51 yah i seen hunch 07:19:55 uncommon 07:19:58 now coreserver 07:20:02 lots of good stuff 07:20:09 what about an oo db? 07:20:13 -!- Guest59013 [n=kbd_@58.41.14.116] has quit [""] 07:20:16 squeak and smalltalk have one called magma 07:20:18 elephant, cl-perec 07:20:25 the_unmaker1: are you looking for a webserver or a database? 07:20:27 elephant? did mccarthy make ti? 07:20:34 tic: that are orms, not oodbs 07:20:40 sort of both for a website 07:20:43 the_unmaker1: bknr has an oodb layer 07:20:51 is that maintained? 07:20:55 certainly 07:20:59 cl-perec 07:21:02 ? 07:21:10 cl-perec too, but it comes without documentation 07:21:10 wazat? 07:21:16 :( 07:21:19 now, use google. please. 07:21:29 ok ok 07:21:36 H4ns, OK. I'm thinking usually people only want an ORM. 07:22:00 AllegroCache is an OODB, but not free. 07:27:44 is elephant usible now? 07:29:24 I saw that video with mccarthy 07:29:47 I didnt get what he asked about how if you read a list twice in ruby do you have to iterate over the lsit again 07:29:51 other guy said no 07:29:58 -!- binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.176.156] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:30:02 mccarthy then said ok ruby not to where lisp was in 1960 07:30:05 I was floored 07:30:23 jso [n=user@host-9-143-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 07:32:32 tic: people _want_ object persistence, then get talked into an orm, then end up hand crafting sql. 07:33:11 tic: that is "state of the art", but i'd question both the "state of" as well as the "art" in that claim 07:34:23 no no 07:34:26 oodb not orm 07:35:49 -!- gonzojive_ [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 07:37:33 http://www.aidaweb.si/ this looks badass 07:37:36 H4ns, I can imagine people wanting to interface their data with other environments, so you'd want a way to exchange data. SQL is an easy way out. 07:37:52 the_unmaker1, wrong language, though. 07:37:52 for web apps I heard regex is important is the cl regex ok? 07:37:59 the_unmaker1, cl-ppcre. 07:38:03 or can you get around regex stuff usning lisp somehow? 07:38:04 Bzek [n=SK_sj@mcc-dyn-17-65.kosnet.ru] has joined #lisp 07:38:28 I know but I mean as a type of oo webapp, and if lisp has nice oo webapp too... 07:38:44 the_unmaker1: how are regular expressions important for web applications? 07:39:01 the_unmaker1, there is for example weblocks at defmacro.org 07:39:34 -!- happycodemonkey [n=carriear@147.226.224.2] has quit [] 07:40:08 binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.207.2] has joined #lisp 07:40:13 -!- gigamonkey` [n=user@adsl-76-254-23-192.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:42:44 freelab [n=freelab@58.63.87.160] has joined #lisp 07:43:16 g'day 07:43:37 oh wow weblock bkrn uncommon web coreserver fastcgi hunchentoot 07:43:49 now I worry soem of these are unmaintained how do I tell? 07:44:27 the_unmaker1: worry less, do more, you must. 07:44:41 -!- freelab [n=freelab@58.63.87.160] has quit [Client Quit] 07:45:15 freelab [n=freelab@58.63.87.160] has joined #lisp 07:47:32 hey schme_. I keep thinking of Monkey Island when I see your name. 07:50:10 tic: I got this scar on my face during a mighty stuggle! 07:51:49 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:53:05 Re: Object Persistence: see Elephant 07:53:39 what an amazing piece of work 07:54:07 -!- freelab [n=freelab@58.63.87.160] has quit [Client Quit] 07:56:16 story of my life 07:57:59 the_unmaker1: You're the author of your own book though. 07:59:21 Im going to change the plot such that im more james bondish 07:59:26 daring 07:59:40 elephant looks liek amsh on top of berkeley db? 07:59:43 whats the point? 08:00:01 berkeley db, sqlite, or the SQL db of your choice 08:00:05 attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 08:00:21 you choose the persistance layer, and it all appears to you like CLOS elements. instantiate at will. 08:00:22 the_unmaker1: OS looks like a mash on top of hardware. what's the point? 08:00:44 brb 08:02:00 freelab [n=freelab@58.63.87.160] has joined #lisp 08:02:46 ebzzry_ [n=rmm@124.217.73.110] has joined #lisp 08:03:10 gonzojive [n=red@c-24-5-3-31.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:03:26 heh 08:03:33 hm 08:03:39 so ele makes life ez 08:03:40 ? 08:04:09 -!- ebzzry [n=rmm@124.217.66.240] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:04:44 Is there some text underlining thing for the McCLIM. I have been looking at text-faces but that turned out to not be it. 08:04:49 ? 08:05:01 -!- freelab [n=freelab@58.63.87.160] has quit [Client Quit] 08:05:10 freelab [n=freelab@58.63.87.160] has joined #lisp 08:05:13 tic: in most applications i have seen, the schema is not shared between the orm application and other applications. 08:05:29 kiuma [n=kiuma@83-103-59-156.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:05:52 hello #lisp 08:06:04 but then again, who am i to question the state of the art? 08:06:08 -!- freelab [n=freelab@58.63.87.160] has quit [Client Quit] 08:06:16 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0D1D2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 08:07:13 hm 08:08:58 heh, bitterness. 08:09:45 freelab [n=freelab@58.63.87.160] has joined #lisp 08:09:54 That's too bad, I was interested in that. I think I might have to look into some of this persistence stuff. 08:10:37 How well do these things work anyway? Do they store off functions too? 08:10:55 hello kiuma 08:11:07 hello fusss 08:11:40 ouch. 08:11:41 *fusss* thinks his laptop is gonna melt 08:11:56 aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:11:56 "Functions, closures, and class objects cannot be stored." says the Elephant. That is too bad. 08:12:13 schme_: not in compiled form anyway 08:12:34 you can push your functions as sexp trees and read them again just fine 08:12:50 Ya. That is what I was thinking. Shouldn't be too much of a hurdle. 08:12:55 sbcl, cmucl and clisp should do just fine with that 08:13:17 As long as sbcl is ok. I think I broke stuff to work with clisp some time ago here :) 08:15:27 -!- me-so-stupid [n=semka@77.236.84.166] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:16:45 yep, just tested it. works. 08:17:05 as long as you eval your stored values .. there gotta be a cleaner way 08:17:54 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:20:01 -!- gonzojive [n=red@c-24-5-3-31.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:20:03 Chris [n=chris@unaffiliated/chris] has joined #lisp 08:22:54 mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@dm.sonopia.com] has joined #lisp 08:23:51 -!- freelab [n=freelab@58.63.87.160] has quit [Client Quit] 08:26:05 yet another web lisp thinggie http://weblisp.net/ 08:26:56 -!- jtoy [n=jtoy@58.63.87.160] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:26:58 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-173.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:27:21 danwhite [n=danwhite@118.107.63.138] has joined #lisp 08:27:29 fusss, a scheme, in fact. 08:27:45 a horrible non-lisp in fact 08:27:57 why? 08:28:06 it's an uncommon lisp, sure 08:28:19 no LET 08:28:25 back to lambda i guess 08:28:26 yipes. 08:28:32 hm, does it have macros? 08:28:43 no 08:28:56 how odd! no let. 08:28:58 it's the sort of "lisp" that people write in 10 pages of C 08:29:05 Yup. 08:29:17 "Despite the crude number of parentheses that these languages are infamous for, the structure of the programs is very consistent." <-- author doesn't "get" Lisp 08:29:17 I read something yesterday.. "Your code does not look like lisp. It is full of LETs and iterations" ;) 08:29:32 [1] CL-TEST(41): (COERCE 5/3 (QUOTE COMPLEX)) -> #C(1.6666666 0.0) .. not good? 08:29:38 edon [n=edon@albalug/edon] has joined #lisp 08:30:03 it want 5/3 08:30:05 -!- ffx` [n=tits@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:30:11 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 08:30:34 dmiles_afk: sit down with the "rational promotion" chapter of the hyper spec :-) 08:31:06 :( 08:31:19 clhs coerce 08:31:19 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_coerce.htm 08:32:44 -!- knobo [n=user@cartman.nextra.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:33:03 if someone types #C(1.6666666 0.0) .. should i make a 1.6666666 ? 08:33:04 dmiles_afk: what lisp did you get that result from? 08:33:32 fusss, i am merging 3 javalisp codebases together to leverage all the overlaps and all the extra features 08:33:45 (coerce 5/3 'complex) ==> 5/3 (CLisp and SBCL) 08:34:10 i guess thats then what i better make it do 08:34:56 its a test i started failing .. i can fix it, but wondering if secretly i was correct.. i guess not 08:35:24 any rational is a complex number with an imaginary part of zero 08:36:35 but i shoukldnt be able to (type-p 1.0 'COMPLEX) -> T right? 08:37:29 -!- eevar [n=snuffpup@106.80-203-27.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:39:48 ok clisp returns NIL 08:41:36 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 08:43:08 Aww, e^(i*pi) doesn't return -1 on clisp 08:43:10 matley [n=matley@91.80.134.194] has joined #lisp 08:44:56 Huh, sin pi on clisp isn't zero 08:45:00 Draggor: what lisp variables correspond with e and i? 08:45:18 e being the function exp, i being sqrt -1 08:45:50 -!- peterc [n=pc@134.7.95.68] has left #lisp 08:45:57 you're computing those with IEEE floating numbers? 08:46:06 single-floats and double-floats? 08:47:13 ecraven [n=nex@dyn167180.wlan.jku.at] has joined #lisp 08:47:18 -!- schme_ [n=marcus@c83-254-190-108.bredband.comhem.se] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 08:48:34 varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:49:00 schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 08:54:34 dthomp [n=dat@c-24-22-103-86.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:55:32 kami-` [n=user@p4FD3874B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:57:56 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 08:59:47 chandler: Are you here? 09:02:06 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:02:49 So after calling cl_boot, is there a way to insert into the lisp interperter a bunch of functions? programmatically, from C/C++? 09:02:54 (ECL) 09:04:59 eevar2 [n=jalla@106.80-203-27.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 09:05:46 Should I wrap the functions in an FFI and make sure they get loaded by the lisp image that boots? 09:06:43 a bunch of Lisp functions? 09:06:46 or C functions. 09:07:08 Functions that I need to write, in C. 09:07:26 *tic* guesses FFI. 09:07:28 -!- sunwukong [n=salvi@ortros.den.rcast.u-tokyo.ac.jp] has quit ["bye"] 09:09:27 Okay. I figure I can use cl_safe_eval to asdf load my ffi of choice, and then the file with the function wrappers. 09:09:46 I've never worked with ECL before, and haven't seen anything easier than that in the docs. 09:10:26 Trying to figure out if it makes sense. 09:10:47 -!- dthomp [n=dat@c-24-22-103-86.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 09:11:00 JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:11:35 dthomp [n=dat@c-24-22-103-86.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:12:08 -!- binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.207.2] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 09:12:11 -!- kami- [n=user@p4FD38A7E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:23:59 -!- dshep [n=user@c-24-7-88-34.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:24:53 -!- dakeyras [n=dakeyras@pool-98-117-125-63.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 09:27:31 -!- yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:29:30 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:33:33 you know ECL has a non-standard usage/implementation, it being 'embedded' and all 09:33:46 Yeah, I know. 09:33:46 -!- danwhite [n=danwhite@118.107.63.138] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:33:55 There's no way I can use SBCL to do this though 09:34:40 mogunus: yes you could. you could use SBCL to write a lisp that outputs embeddable execuable code :-) 09:34:59 mogunus: Ask on the mailing list. ECL's maintainer is very friendly and responsive. 09:35:03 Hah! I suppose that is an option. 09:36:06 juan is amazing 09:36:48 -!- the_unmaker1 [n=Administ@cpe-76-166-187-100.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:37:14 -!- dthomp [n=dat@c-24-22-103-86.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:37:31 I need a running lisp image that I can evaluate arbitrary code in from C, Which can also call some C functions. 09:38:57 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 09:39:53 you're right, that's pretty much what ECL is good at 09:40:18 a not-so-distant relative is GCL .. 09:40:35 Now, if only I could use it for that :-) 09:40:54 Meh. I'm not that hopeless. It's just slow going because the API for this stupid system is completely undocumented. 09:41:31 They embedded the python interperter, though, so I'm basing the lisp embedding on that. 09:41:34 they're C functions you wanna call? 09:41:54 Um, C callbacks, really. 09:42:03 you want C to call Lisp? 09:42:12 And lisp to call C. 09:42:13 Yes. 09:42:43 Lisp calling C is straightforward FFI 09:42:59 C calling Lisp has to be supported by your specific FFI 09:43:03 C-callbacks 09:43:09 let me look ... 09:43:42 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@EM119-72-17-138.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:44:22 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 09:44:30 Does anyone know a smart way to do this in lisp? "find /path/to/xxx -cmin +24 | xargs rm" 09:45:22 (run-shell-command "find /path/to/xxx -cmin +24 | xargs rm") 09:46:13 mogunus: I did a bit of what you describe with ECL some time ago..if you look for Procustean on repo.or.cz.. 09:46:19 Well this is great. 09:46:39 The value #'(LAMBDA () (FOODGROUP-QUERY FOO)) is not of type (OR FUNCTION SYMBOL). 09:46:42 fook :) 09:46:55 -!- matley [n=matley@91.80.134.194] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:46:56 dthomp [n=dat@c-24-22-103-86.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:46:58 it is list 09:47:05 mogunus: which one is driving the other? does the Lisp application fire C apps and load C libraries, or is there a C program with a main function that loads the Lisp? 09:47:09 Krystof: Uhm, so calling shell command from lisp is the best way, you think. Thanks. 09:47:20 stassats`: So how do I make it a function? 09:47:24 fusss: the C program has a main function which loads the lisp 09:47:30 schme: evaluate it 09:48:10 stassats`: Hoh.. putting eval into my function sounds not so nice :) 09:48:24 mogunus: they export your Lisp functions as C functions tell you C app about the lisp function declarations. this should be in the docs somewhere .. 09:48:29 schme: not eval 09:48:35 schme: it sounds more like you forgot a , in some backquote code 09:48:37 c.f. (type-of '#'(LAMBDA () (FOODGROUP-QUERY FOO))) and (type-of #'(LAMBDA () (FOODGROUP-QUERY FOO))) 09:48:47 Krystof: (fboundp 'run-shell-command) => NIL 09:48:56 stassats`: What not if eval? 09:49:02 Hmm.. 09:49:06 tcr: No backquoted code :) 09:49:16 tomoyuki28jp: sure, because reimplementing the whole of find(1) is a lot of work 09:49:37 Krystof: I understand. 09:49:37 (.... :initform '(#'(lambda () ....) #' (lambda () ....) #'(lambda () ...))) 09:49:39 there will be some way of calling a shell command in your lisp 09:49:49 fusss: I need to be able to use it with arbitrary lisp code though 09:49:49 schme: Notice the QUOTE. 09:49:51 -!- enigmus [n=e@S0106001d7e52d1d9.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:49:54 minion: tell tomoyuki28jp about trivial-shell 09:49:55 tomoyuki28jp: direct your attention towards trivial-shell: Trivial shell is a simple platform independent interface to the underlying Operating System. http://www.cliki.net/trivial-shell 09:50:07 tcr: Oh ya. This actually makes perfect sense now. 09:50:16 What I'm trying to do is add lisp as a frontend language for the system. 09:50:18 attila_lendvai: minion: Thanks for the info. I will take a look at it. 09:50:25 Thanks stassats', tcr 09:51:00 Though I'm a bit puzzled here. How would I go buy storing this thing off with elephant or so without the QUOTE? 09:51:29 schme: I don't think elephant can serialize closures. 09:51:33 mogunus: think out how you wanna ship the final app http://ecls.sourceforge.net/new-manual/ch16.html#table.make-build 09:51:48 tcr: That's why I wanted the list :) 09:52:10 Ah well. something will work out. 09:52:36 schme: One way would be to introduce named functions, and store symbols 09:52:37 if you want arbitrary Lisp code defined at yourapp's runtime, you might need a way to classify and select which Lisp function to call. A selection criterion. 09:52:59 fusss: since it needs to execute user lisp code, I was thinking a dll, in case they want to run more than one instance of the app 09:53:29 tcr: How do you mean? 09:53:32 you might need to get into dirty GC details as well. Not sure if ECL uses a copying collector, but with a copying GC you can't count on holding pointers. 09:53:59 fusss: Yeah... I need to find some way to insert the system's built-in classes and functions 09:54:01 you will have to talk to the ECl developer imo 09:54:20 insert them where? what classes built with what? 09:54:41 The program has a lot of "classes" defined in C. 09:54:43 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 09:54:55 those you can access from Lisp with FFI 09:54:58 tcr: I'd still need to store the code for the functions off. So it's a problem :) 09:55:14 just use ECL's defcstruct equivalent 09:55:41 schme: The code is then stored in your Lisp image 09:56:19 tcr: Ya. But I want it stored somewhere outside :) 09:56:34 mogunus: did you build ECL on windows? couldn't do that all last night :-S 09:56:48 fusss: no, I'm on linux. 09:56:55 matimago- [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:57:10 fusss: Hmm, that may be moot though, because I'm using the relese version. 09:57:34 if C is calling Lisp, there is no way around having a fixed interface to the Lisp functions 09:57:46 you either list your lisp-exported functions in a header somewhere 09:58:06 or you implement full blown reflection and method "discovery" 09:58:31 something like COM/CORBA and horrible 09:58:36 The latter is what they did with Python 09:58:41 aha 09:59:14 there might be a way to a clean fixed interface 09:59:17 Which I actually already have, sortof. 09:59:20 enigmus_ [n=e@S0106001d7e52d1d9.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 09:59:25 I need to figure out classes. 09:59:28 and let the Lisp side dispatch to various method, based on input 10:00:10 Well this got complicated for me. How on earth do I set this initform to be a list of functions? 10:00:13 Oh. Yes. That's exactly what I do. I use cl_safe_eval after turning the C-side stuff into lisp objects using ECL's translation things. 10:00:18 jtoy [n=jtoy@58.63.87.160] has joined #lisp 10:00:38 s/C-side stuff/arguments 10:00:42 for a contrived example; you tell your C driver your Lisp export the "+" operator, which takes two arbuments of type Object .. then implement type dispatchers on the lisp side that implement + for each type. viola, fixed but extensibe interface. 10:01:12 *mogunus* nods 10:01:40 oh! 10:01:49 What to use to make a list . 10:01:51 Heheheh :) 10:02:07 well, you're at the nice intersection between hacking and architecturing :-) now if you would excuse me, i have to go and find a way to map the DUIM event model to Win32 AND Gtk ;-) 10:02:21 fusss: good lord. um. enjoy that? 10:02:25 schme: QUOTE ;-) 10:02:37 fusss: quote fucked it up though 10:02:48 it's LIST and you know it ;-) 10:03:02 mogunus: somebody gotta do it. gotta go now, peace! 10:03:11 fusss: quote is not a good way to create lists. quoted lists are literals which you're not permitted to modify. 10:03:38 -!- Drakej [n=fred@216-67-9-70-rb2.nwc.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 10:03:49 tcr: i know. i also know he used quoted earlier and got bit. whence his epiphany about "what to use to create a list" ;-) 10:04:07 s/quoted/quote/ 10:04:56 It's still a big problem for me to serialise the stuff now. 10:04:57 bah. 10:04:58 it's like testing the tail of a list with LAST. everyone knows you eventually want butlast 10:05:01 Well later problem. 10:05:07 -!- O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-65-112.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Come alive!"] 10:05:56 schme: (persist '(lambda (x) (format t "Hello ~a!~%" x))) 10:06:45 then somewhere (funcall (eval (read-back-your-function-here)) "World") 10:06:51 -!- haiwei [n=haiwei@192.9.202.3] has quit ["Leaving."] 10:07:01 fusss: Right. But I wanted to avoid eval :) 10:07:08 oh 10:07:24 lyte_ [n=lyte@220-244-221-67-nsw-pppoe.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 10:07:32 This is why I used ' at first, then I decided eval was not so pretty. and then I had to go with list. well ya. so here I am. 10:07:35 heh. 10:07:48 could you persist it as a string and use read-from-string? 10:08:05 The function? 10:08:23 I could probably do just about anything. Sure. 10:08:24 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-177-125.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:08:36 If you don't want to use EVAL, you can do (funcall (compile nil (read-back-your-function-source-here)) "World") 10:09:20 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 10:09:20 yikes. 10:09:27 (read-from-string "#.(lambda (x) x)") no word "eval" 10:09:43 -!- dthomp [n=dat@c-24-22-103-86.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:09:49 See what I really want to do is store the function off in an object slot, and have that object persistant. 10:10:03 -!- matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:10:22 and from what I understand using EVAL is generally just wrong, and one should avoid it. 10:10:50 schme: actually, there's nothing wrong in EVAL, just that it works in the global environment, not the lexical one. 10:10:54 schme: not always. also, look around MAKE-LOAD-FORM, it's juicy and will keep you off of eval for a few days ;-) 10:11:00 Oh ok. 10:11:02 But you already have the bigger problem of not being able to save closures. 10:11:17 That's quite ok with the closures. 10:12:10 Another thing with EVAL is that it's the implementations who decides if it compiles or interprets. 10:12:18 So if you want to compile do it explicitely. 10:12:20 -!- lyte_ [n=lyte@220-244-221-67-nsw-pppoe.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:12:24 I see. 10:12:38 nite folks 10:12:39 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@pool-72-66-40-106.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 2.0.0.17/2008082909]"] 10:13:36 nite fusss 10:14:07 schme: save functions into fasls 10:14:39 Hmmm.. 10:14:48 will probably break when you upgrade your Lisp. 10:14:52 and how do I associate those then with the stuff in the database? 10:15:04 schme: by name 10:15:05 you store the fasl as a blob. 10:15:22 tic: Yum ;) 10:15:27 Ah. 10:15:32 Then I will get a lot of names. 10:15:49 how is that different from your current scheme? surely you must be able to retrieve a function even now? 10:15:52 schme: gensym has a good fantasy 10:15:55 stassats`, :D 10:16:04 stassats`: I know. 10:16:14 tic: But they're all unnamed now. 10:16:35 schme, oh, thought they were named. Okay, then stassats`' suggestion makes sense. 10:17:02 "Hm, how do I calculate the energy from this food? Ah right, G42789!" 10:18:29 ya it's just a bugger to get the stuff extracted and into the elisp then :) 10:19:37 -!- jtoy [n=jtoy@58.63.87.160] has quit [] 10:23:06 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 10:28:20 -!- rread [n=rread@c-76-21-116-77.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:29:08 rread [n=rread@c-76-21-116-77.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:29:11 tic: It's not so much for nutrition calculation, it's for chart data for the workout entries :) 10:29:20 schme, aight 10:29:38 (I was just trying to pick something that it could've been) 10:29:52 :) 10:30:09 Well something will work. 10:30:11 eh :) 10:32:31 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has joined #lisp 10:33:01 Well eureka. Now on to producing chart output. What I'm looking at is feeding data to ploticus, generating an image, and display that. :) 10:33:04 hello 10:33:12 Hello fe[nl]ix 10:33:19 hi schme 10:34:33 benny [n=benny@i577A0376.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 10:36:29 jao` [n=user@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:36:59 zhl [n=shrek@c-3143e455.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 10:37:55 binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.223.134] has joined #lisp 10:37:58 -!- jao` is now known as jao 10:39:09 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 10:39:24 Hoh. 10:39:25 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-12-135.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 10:39:31 Actually eval will be best. Excellent. 10:40:00 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-12-135.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:41:10 chandler: yay! 10:42:19 z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 10:45:13 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@EM119-72-17-138.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:51:58 manuel_ [n=manuel@vpnwwwext.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has joined #lisp 11:03:27 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 11:03:33 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.3.116.19] has joined #lisp 11:05:40 nickga [n=nickg@pc022.cs.york.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:06:55 etfb [n=poet@ppp59-167-55-91.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 11:07:18 -!- Bzek [n=SK_sj@mcc-dyn-17-65.kosnet.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:07:54 I fancy doing some stuff in CL that sends GET and POST requests via HTTP and handles the responses. What library should I use to make it easy? I'm using SBCL in Linux, if it makes a difference. 11:07:55 umis [n=umis@prudent-gloryer.volia.net] has joined #lisp 11:09:18 minion: tell etfb about drakma 11:09:19 etfb: look at drakma: Drakma is a fully-featured Common Lisp web client library that knows how to handle HTTP/1.1 chunking, persistent connections, re-usable sockets, SSL, continuable uploads, cookies, and other things. http://www.cliki.net/drakma 11:09:58 H4ns [n=Hans@p57BB9B32.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:10:55 something odd happened: clbuild now has users 11:11:19 also, clbuild-devel is now the discussion list for bugs in gwking's asd files 11:11:20 lichtblau, ? 11:11:29 what's weird about it having users? 11:11:45 Thanks, fe[nl]ix! That looks like exactly what I need. 11:12:23 Does fe[nl]ix match both fenix and felix? 11:13:12 danwhite [n=danwhite@ppp118-208-116-86.lns4.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 11:13:21 antoszka: it's fenix felix 11:14:41 fe[nl]ix: I thought it were rather felix fenix :) 11:15:03 fe[nl]ix: Not necessarily! You could be using Extended Backus-Naur Format instead of regexps, in which case you're optionally either feix or fenlix! 11:15:23 antoszka: it doesn't really matter 11:15:43 Mhm. 11:15:52 fe[nl]ix: And then there's the possibility that [nl] stands for a newline, in which case you must be fe 11:15:53 ix! 11:15:57 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:20:53 Ah, I love asdf-install... 11:27:40 -!- binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.223.134] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:30:27 lichtblau: see, my decision not to read clbuild-devel is vindicated! 11:32:29 binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.168.211] has joined #lisp 11:34:52 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 11:41:34 :-) 11:42:04 On a more serious note, my impression is that we have a usability problem due to my choice of following asdf-install in its .asd file searching behaviour. 11:42:48 That is, "clbuild recompile foo" doesn't do asdf:operate on the system foo, it looks for source/foo/*.asd, and compiles each system called *. 11:43:44 I don't see a good alternative, but people seem to have a real problem understanding that clbuild loads test and documentation systems the original author didn't intend users to try. 11:44:24 -!- etfb [n=poet@ppp59-167-55-91.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:45:11 tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:45:50 so we get the "wah, weblocks is broken, what now?" emails even though (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op :weblocks) would have worked 11:45:51 jtoy [n=jtoy@58.63.171.97] has joined #lisp 11:46:34 for now, I've just moved "clbuild recompile" and "clbuild dumpcore" from --help to --long-help in the hope that users only see the asdf:operate instructions that are now suggested in the short help instead 11:49:26 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483ED9C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:51:07 reaver__ [n=reaver@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 11:53:39 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.3.116.19] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:54:44 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-177-125.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Connection timed out] 11:58:29 vasa [n=vasa@mm-236-93-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has joined #lisp 11:59:10 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-177-125.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:00:35 -!- binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.168.211] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:08:36 -!- locklace [i=locklace@gateway/tor/x-7d1527f8e725fe4c] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:10:58 locklace [i=locklace@gateway/tor/x-787770d742232c9f] has joined #lisp 12:13:15 trittweil [n=trittwei@macbroy27.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 12:14:32 ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 12:18:37 H4ns1 [n=Hans@p57BB9B46.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:18:46 -!- JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:18:48 lichtblau, so clbuild is a good way of getting systems in your Lisp? 12:21:58 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 12:22:08 schme: underlining is, curiously, done using surrounding-output-with-border :shape :underline 12:22:32 hefner: Oh thanks :) 12:23:03 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:23:13 does that handle text properly, including multi-line paragraphs? 12:25:29 sort of, yeah 12:25:55 it just finds every text output record and draws a line under it, so it doesn't matter if it's multi line or whatever 12:26:23 although I think you can get breaks in the line 12:27:36 -!- H4ns [n=Hans@p57BB9B32.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 12:27:37 -!- H4ns1 is now known as H4ns 12:38:05 -!- Nate75Sanders [n=nate@cpe-76-88-157-74.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit ["using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12"] 12:48:11 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 12:50:29 Bzek [n=SK_sj@mcc-dyn-16-108.kosnet.ru] has joined #lisp 12:52:24 lichtblau: maybe it makes sense to further filter the names of the asd files used for recompilation by the master project name? 12:52:58 AFAIK, asdf-install load-ops only that one, too. 12:53:50 it makes sense to symlink them still for manual loading, when automatically operating on stuff, it is probably better to use the one name that we know should work (: 12:54:31 athos [n=philipp@p54B86143.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:54:45 antifuchs: ITYDKWYTYK 12:54:52 -!- hsaliak_ [n=hsaliak@cm89.sigma229.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:54:58 that is, I don't think that is how asdf-install operates 12:55:10 see the squillions of complaints about clsql and asdf-install 12:55:12 let me look it up 12:55:15 been a while 12:55:16 where it tries to compile all database backends 12:55:28 does lispbuild work on win32 yet? 12:55:37 i mean, clbuild? 12:55:47 ah, indeed 12:56:01 well, grmpf. 12:57:59 ZabaQ: what do you mean, "yet"? 12:58:20 ok, apart from asdf-install not working like I thought it does, is there anything that speaks against doing that? (: 12:59:02 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:59:11 -!- vcgomes[away] is now known as vcgomes 12:59:37 yes, there is :-) Let me assemble the list of reasons... 13:00:21 cl-yacc/yacc.asd plexippus-xpath/xpath.asd cljl/cl-jpeg.asd cl-bibtex/bibtex.asd graphic-forms/graphic-forms-uitoolkit.asd parse-declarations/parse-declarations-1.0.asd quicktime-ffi/quicktime.asd slime/swank.asd 13:00:45 oh my 13:01:09 well, who uses those anyway <-; 13:01:09 if only we had a Policy Manual to beat lisp hackers over the head with 13:01:16 indeed 13:01:18 nostoi [n=nostoi@108.Red-83-34-155.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:02:51 Jasko3 [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 13:05:04 ZabaQ: I ported it to cygwin. In retrospect, it was a bad idea and the ugly remnants of this cygwin port should be removed. 13:07:54 ZabaQ: did you solve your connectivity problem to c-l.net? 13:09:59 How does darwin/ppc transfer float to int-reg args, when make-call-out-tns is feeded an float by memory(pointed to by an reg) ? 13:11:44 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 13:12:03 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-254-94.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 13:12:54 tst___ [n=Tim@p4FD2C5D1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:14:32 wouldnt ppc lose precision when doing an float->int conversion prior to funcall ? precision loss because it will only use one int-reg. 13:14:40 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 13:14:42 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:15:17 elurin [n=user@85.104.132.54] has joined #lisp 13:15:20 afternoon 13:15:30 hi nikodemus 13:16:21 fe[nl]ix: thanks for the socket comments 13:16:49 i could use a couple of bucketloads more details (or pointers to places where this is explained) 13:17:11 i sort-of followed what you said, but not sure i really understood it 13:18:00 basically, you can't retry a connect since the TCP handshake is already underway 13:18:54 because another thread or process is racing with us? or something else? 13:19:01 if you do that, the various Unices may return EINPROGRESS, or EALREADY or something else 13:19:35 because the kernel is still attempting the connection in the background even if the connect() syscall has been interrupted 13:19:45 ah 13:20:04 but SA_RESTART would be okay? 13:21:21 I have no idea 13:22:05 -!- brickhazel [n=brickhaz@63.144.132.78] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:22:12 since connect() behaves so differently wrt. other syscalls, it may still return an EINTR 13:22:24 hm 13:22:26 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@212.88.117.162] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:22:54 but I'm just guessing here 13:23:39 lichtblau: I missed the context of the discussion; what's wrong with parse-declarations asd file? 13:24:10 so after EINTR poll, check for completed connection. if it is, we're done. if it isn't we can call connect() again? 13:26:33 if poll() indicates writability, you must check still for the pending error on the socket 13:26:35 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 13:26:37 trittweil: I only mentioned it as one of many illustrations why asdf-install and clbuild can't depend on .asd files to have the same name of the directory they are in. 13:27:08 poll writability merely indicates that something has happened to the socket: either a successful connection or an error 13:27:17 ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has joined #lisp 13:27:30 schaueho [i=d5a445c1@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-fabb669b4627f1a9] has joined #lisp 13:27:44 nikodemus: see http://repo.or.cz/w/iolib.git?a=blob;f=net.sockets/socket-methods.lisp;hb=HEAD lines 306-319 13:29:43 brickhazel [n=brickhaz@63.144.132.78] has joined #lisp 13:33:20 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:33:24 -!- zhl [n=shrek@c-3143e455.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["leaving"] 13:36:43 Good afternoon. 13:36:43 -!- elurin [n=user@85.104.132.54] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:36:54 hi beach 13:36:54 elurin [n=user@85.104.132.54] has joined #lisp 13:37:52 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:42:43 -!- nickga [n=nickg@pc022.cs.york.ac.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:44:20 athos_ [n=philipp@p54B861D9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:36 -!- danwhite [n=danwhite@ppp118-208-116-86.lns4.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:46:22 -!- Bzek [n=SK_sj@mcc-dyn-16-108.kosnet.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:46:55 danwhite [n=danwhite@ppp118-208-79-157.lns1.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:02 nikodemus: http://www.madore.org/~david/computers/connect-intr.html and http://cr.yp.to/docs/connect.html 13:48:38 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 13:49:40 wormil [n=Miranda@adsl-070-155-056-058.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:06 -!- athos [n=philipp@p54B86143.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:53:07 *attila_lendvai* add that to his ever growing workspace/notes.txt 13:53:16 -!- nostoi [n=nostoi@108.Red-83-34-155.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["Verlassend"] 13:57:38 cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has joined #lisp 14:02:02 x6j8x_ [n=x6j8x@tmo-100-185.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #lisp 14:04:51 -!- tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:06:31 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-254-94.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:07:30 H4ns: I sloved my problem, thanks. I *had* edited /etc/hosts years ago and forgotten about it. 14:07:48 ZabaQ: :) 14:07:55 -!- segv__ is now known as segv 14:07:55 H4ns: I'm glad it wasn't NDO as they have been very reliable. 14:08:36 ZabaQ: in the future, please respond if you could solve problems with c-l.net so that we can close the case. 14:10:26 -!- athos_ [n=philipp@p54B861D9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:10:53 [1]edon [n=edon@82.114.94.2] has joined #lisp 14:11:30 -!- UnwashedMeme [n=nathan@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:11:36 -!- x6j8x [n=x6j8x@tmo-100-137.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:12:18 -!- edon is now known as Guest32160 14:12:28 -!- [1]edon is now known as edon 14:14:10 H4ns: Sorry that I haven't been able to respond.. 14:14:30 sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:18:30 -!- Guest32160 [n=edon@albalug/edon] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:19:14 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 14:20:27 jpcooper [n=justin@unaffiliated/jpcooper] has joined #lisp 14:23:18 -!- wgl [n=wgl@216.145.227.9] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:28:37 Has anybody any idea what happened to clsql? 14:29:17 schaueho: what do you mean ? 14:29:21 The git repository hasn't seen a checkin since december 07. 14:29:30 -!- Aisling [i=ash@blk-137-73-33.eastlink.ca] has quit ["leaving"] 14:29:47 Aisling [i=ash@blk-137-73-33.eastlink.ca] has joined #lisp 14:30:02 schaueho: Because it works? 14:30:25 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.110.15] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:30:38 Well, several patches have been posted to -devel, neither of which have been applied. 14:31:19 maybe he's lamenting the fate of UFFI? 14:31:30 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has joined #lisp 14:32:35 (although if it were me, I'd be happy that I no longer had to maintain the de facto portable FFI) 14:32:52 So maybe he's just on vacation ;) 14:35:13 -!- ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:35:37 I haven't seen kmr around in a while, and meme is mostly-down these days. 14:35:50 is there some easy way to do concatenation of adjacent constant strings at read time? 14:36:29 #.(concatenate 'string "foo" "bar") ? 14:37:15 is that the best approach? eg for cases where you have a string that shouldn't include newlines but that you want to break over multiple source lines 14:38:02 well, there's also (format nil "foo ~ 14:38:04 bar") 14:38:08 -!- tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 14:38:18 g0ju [n=moo@dslb-088-075-059-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:38:29 (er, stick a #. in front of that) 14:39:05 locklace: I've often wanted that for docstrings 14:39:15 -!- schaueho [i=d5a445c1@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-fabb669b4627f1a9] has quit ["mibbit.com: Weekend arrived"] 14:39:32 ok 14:39:39 minion: cl-interpol? 14:39:39 cl-interpol: CL-INTERPOL modifies the reader so that you can have interpolation of strings similar to Perl or Unix Shell scripts. http://www.cliki.net/cl-interpol 14:39:53 chandler: Do you have some time later to merge some of my reader cleanups into sbcl? kreuter wanted to do that, but it seems like he's got overly busy lately. 14:40:25 kind of surprised there isn't a read macro for that 14:40:27 phubar [n=patrick@216.132.194.62] has joined #lisp 14:40:32 trittweil: oh, hi. I was looking for you as 'tcr' :-) 14:40:43 dlowe: yeah, and in general for strings that happen to start close to the right margin 14:41:05 trittweil: What was the subject line of the email? 14:41:12 chandler: I was just looking at that, but there doesn't seem to be an option to ignore newlines 14:41:21 would make a nice feature 14:41:22 "similar to Perl" is a little farther than i want to go ;) 14:41:24 dlowe: yes, that's what I was looking for too 14:41:54 I might push a patch over 14:41:58 chandler: They're in a git repository. I'll later send you polished patch files that I sent to kreuter privately. 14:42:42 trittweil: if you send them to sbcl-devel, I'll keep an eye open for them 14:43:26 chandler: I sent initial revisions to sbcl-devel. They're kind of big. 14:43:58 Would gzipping the attachment help? 14:44:00 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@vpnwwwext.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has quit [] 14:48:05 happycodemonkey [n=carriear@147.226.234.205] has joined #lisp 14:49:27 trittweil: Otherwise, feel free to send them privately - but if they're very big I can't promise for sure that I will have time to review them 14:51:03 chandler: They're not that big. Just in accumulation. 14:51:47 chandler: Could you msg me your email address? 14:52:02 trittweil: Done. 14:52:09 hugo [n=hugo@unaffiliated/hugo] has joined #lisp 14:52:45 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 14:53:08 bobbysmith0071 [n=russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 14:57:12 x6j8x [n=x6j8x@tmo-100-185.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #lisp 14:59:30 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:00:00 ejs [n=eugen@80.91.178.218] has joined #lisp 15:03:08 ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:07:10 -!- sykopomp [n=user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:07:20 sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 15:10:30 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:12:13 malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbd6e1.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 15:12:33 -!- x6j8x_ [n=x6j8x@tmo-100-185.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:13:07 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-2-212.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:15:24 -!- VityokOrgUa [n=user@193.109.118.130] has quit ["time to go home"] 15:15:39 reaver__ [n=reaver@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 15:17:58 -!- ecraven [n=nex@dyn167180.wlan.jku.at] has quit ["bbl"] 15:18:29 -!- bobbysmith0071 [n=russ@216.155.97.1] has left #lisp 15:20:36 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 15:23:03 -!- varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:23:54 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.248.11] has quit [] 15:24:30 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.248.11] has joined #lisp 15:24:36 dthomp [n=dat@nmd.sbx08736.mcminor.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 15:25:00 locklace pasted "read-time string concatenation" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/69904 15:25:32 binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.247.89] has joined #lisp 15:26:07 dlowe: i guess that works ok 15:26:29 why not just #.(concatenate 'string "foo" "bar" "baz") 15:27:54 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.248.11] has quit [Client Quit] 15:28:39 adeht: because it is a pain to type and read that all the time for such a trivial thing 15:29:34 so have a function to do specificially string concatenation, named say `s+' 15:30:20 bobbysmith007 [n=russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 15:30:23 #.(s+ "foo" "bar" "zot") 15:31:10 -!- danwhite [n=danwhite@ppp118-208-79-157.lns1.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:31:24 -!- trittweil [n=trittwei@macbroy27.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit ["leaving"] 15:31:26 locklace: modifying the common lisp syntax for such a trivial thing does not seem to be very tasteful. 15:31:36 six of one and half a dozen of the other 15:34:18 -!- bobbysmith007 [n=russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:34:40 locklace: why not just define a fncution named _ ? 15:34:53 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:34:54 hell, why not just type them in as one string to beign with? 15:35:03 there has to be a way to make that shorter yet... 15:35:12 segv: he wants to break lines without causing a line break in the string 15:35:57 -!- jao [n=user@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:37:21 then i'd much rather see a smarter read macro on #\" which interpredeted ~\n as "" 15:37:35 at least that would be consist with format. 15:38:39 so I need to use ~~ to get a literal tilde? e 15:38:41 er, "eh" 15:38:59 I'd rather just see #\\ #\Newline treated as nothing 15:42:59 JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:43:08 a \ newline escape would be good 15:44:58 -!- jpcooper [n=justin@unaffiliated/jpcooper] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:46:12 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:46:46 mejja [n=user@c-4db6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 15:47:51 morning 15:48:13 -!- jtoy [n=jtoy@58.63.171.97] has quit [] 15:49:12 -!- adeht [n=death@nessers.org] has quit ["changing servers"] 15:49:26 adeht [n=death@nessers.org] has joined #lisp 15:54:36 -!- x6j8x [n=x6j8x@tmo-100-185.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:55:33 acrid [n=mckay@reverse.control4.com] has joined #lisp 15:56:05 -!- ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:58:33 lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-15-172.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:55 -!- eevar2 [n=jalla@106.80-203-27.nextgentel.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:00:17 Spaija [n=user@nat/cisco/x-06b9b7f6a76083a5] has joined #lisp 16:01:26 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit ["..."] 16:02:47 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 16:03:38 -!- jajcloz [n=jaj@209-6-216-149.c3-0.smr-ubr3.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:04:49 hugod_ [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1279776357.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 16:07:39 jpcooper [n=justin@unaffiliated/jpcooper] has joined #lisp 16:10:27 ventonegro [n=user@136.166.1.3] has joined #lisp 16:11:36 -!- hugod [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1279442362.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:11:50 -!- JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:12:09 dakeyras [n=dakeyras@pool-98-117-125-63.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:12:47 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:13:07 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Yay! I'm a Llama again!"] 16:13:49 pjb pasted "c string reader / writer" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/69905 16:14:01 ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has joined #lisp 16:14:27 Here is a #\" reader macro and a writer function I recently implemented to read and write C-like strings. 16:15:12 -!- matimago- is now known as matimago 16:15:56 peartizer [i=user@82-46-30-39.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:16:05 -!- appletizer [i=user@82-46-30-39.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 16:16:29 dkcl [n=dkcl@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 16:17:25 Well, in fact it won't signal an error for a stray newline in the string. You'll have to change it to remove them. 16:17:41 -!- peartizer is now known as appletizer 16:17:59 pjb: doesn't seem to handle the case in point? 16:18:05 Just add: ((#\newline) #|Remove it|#) 16:18:29 fun, I just had SBCL heap exhaust during gc 16:18:36 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@212.88.117.162] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:18:48 .. after the main run had already succeeded :( 16:19:07 (in the first CASE!) 16:19:50 Just add: ((#\newline) #|Remove it|# :in-string) actually. 16:19:54 stray newlines are ok, escaped newlines should be eliminated 16:20:20 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.248.84] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:20:28 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.248.84] has joined #lisp 16:20:46 adeht: ah, then the first add was good, in the second CASE. 16:20:58 willb [n=wibenton@wireless119.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 16:22:25 matimago annotated #69905 with "tuned" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/69905#1 16:24:04 -!- epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has quit ["  "] 16:24:05 -!- adeht [n=death@nessers.org] has quit ["changing servers"] 16:24:27 adeht [n=death@nessers.org] has joined #lisp 16:25:54 -!- robot_jesus [n=csanders@hoovers-241.hoovers.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:28:51 -!- Jasko3 [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:29:12 Jasko3 [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 16:29:48 -!- Spaija [n=user@nat/cisco/x-06b9b7f6a76083a5] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:33:59 -!- ejs [n=eugen@80.91.178.218] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:36:29 matimago: that's pretty cool 16:37:51 what's with the :keyword-style loop directives? is that a hack to avoid symbol interning? 16:38:39 olejorgenb [i=bronner@gaupe.stud.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 16:39:21 locklace: yes. I have packages that exports macros such as FOR or WHILE. If I use them after having read a loop, it's a collision. So I always use keywords in LOOPs. Moreover, keywords are colorized in a nice pink tint by emacs. ;-) 16:39:28 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:47 -!- dakeyras [n=dakeyras@pool-98-117-125-63.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 16:39:59 heh, interesting, didn't realise using :keywords would work for loop 16:40:12 -!- mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@dm.sonopia.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:41:35 locklace: any symbol with the same name, actually. We could write: (defpackage :lk (:use)) (loop lk::for i lk:in '(a 2 3) lk:finally (return i)) 16:41:48 s/lk:f/lk::f/ 16:41:55 s/lk:i/lk::i/ 16:42:13 Or #:for #:in #:etc 16:42:17 ok 16:42:48 demoncyber_ [n=colmeia@200.18.7.16] has joined #lisp 16:44:01 nikodemus: i've read your comment the other day about the invalid layout issue... sounds good! :) 16:44:12 -!- dthomp [n=dat@nmd.sbx08736.mcminor.wayport.net] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 16:44:51 seems like the 1.0.12.2 with Xof's backported CTOR fix and a (gc :full t) every two seconds is quite stable 16:45:14 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:46:43 milanj [n=milan@212.200.223.122] has joined #lisp 16:46:44 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@83-103-59-156.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 16:47:15 err, every two minutes 16:48:22 i was going to say 16:49:43 chandler: what did CMUCL 19e complain about? 16:51:27 minion: sing 16:51:28 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``sing''. 16:51:35 :'( 16:55:36 gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-2-150-65.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:46 minion: chant 16:56:47 MORE DETAILS 16:58:21 trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 16:59:31 nikodemus: presumably, redefinition of a structure accessor 16:59:50 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:00:29 -!- H4ns [n=Hans@p57BB9B46.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:01:45 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 17:02:00 davazp [n=user@72.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:27 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-177-125.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:03:35 doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has joined #lisp 17:04:12 -!- prip [n=_prip@host245-134-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:06:57 dakeyras [n=dakeyras@pool-98-117-125-63.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:56 hello. 17:08:54 ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:05 what slime contrib modules are reccomended? 17:09:23 slime-fancy and everything it pulls in (: 17:10:32 jfrancis [n=jfrancis@72.14.227.4] has joined #lisp 17:10:33 dthomp [n=dat@dyn-188-dynamic.linfield.edu] has joined #lisp 17:11:10 do some slime-contribs collide? 17:11:36 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-23-192.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:12:03 sykopomp` [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 17:13:04 style question: if you have a bunch of methods with only one specialization, it seems like a lot of textual overhead to create separate defgenerics for all of them, but if you don't then you get style-warnings. what's the recommended approach? 17:13:51 (defgeneric method-name (args) (:method ((arg specializer)) body)) 17:14:13 is what I do; also removes the methods defined the defgeneric body on re-evaluation. very handy. 17:14:45 phytovor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has joined #lisp 17:14:47 "defined in the" 17:14:52 antifuchs: oh great, didn't know about that, that looks great 17:15:03 *nikodemus* is driven mad by dx 17:15:16 -!- ventonegro [n=user@136.166.1.3] has left #lisp 17:16:02 time to take a break, i believe 17:16:47 la_mer [n=la_mer@static-151-203-190-231.wma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:00 cltl2 defgeneric 17:17:00 http://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/clm/node311.html 17:17:09 -!- cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:17:59 manuel_ [n=manuel@krlh-4d03479d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:13 nikodemus: what, just after you're driven mad? 17:18:35 -!- dakeyras [n=dakeyras@pool-98-117-125-63.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 17:18:53 cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has joined #lisp 17:19:18 is there an 'easy' way to add a \r\n to a string? 17:19:33 rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 17:19:43 and an \0 17:20:37 nikodemus: what Krystof said 17:20:43 josemanuel [n=josemanu@108.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:20:48 (regarding what CMUCL complained about) 17:21:30 (format "~A~C~C~C" string #\Return #\Newline #\Null) 17:21:39 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 17:21:40 mulligan [n=user@e178031069.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:21:46 TravisD [n=user@S01060016b6218db2.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:52 stick a nil in there too 17:21:52 oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811112.orange.net.il] has joined #lisp 17:22:14 details 17:22:19 Does anyone here mind a bit of off topic discussion about RAM machines and turing machines? I don't know of another channel that is likely to have understanding 17:24:37 basically, I'm trying to determine if there is a better way to show that comptuationally Turing Machines and RAM Machines are equivalent -- and I can think of a way to prove that ram machines can do all that turing machines can (by creating a "turing machine emulator" in the ram machine), but I cannot think of the reverse. I'm wondering if there is maybe an easier way 17:26:13 -!- sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:26:57 -!- locklace [i=locklace@gateway/tor/x-787770d742232c9f] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:27:33 well, normally i'd try to use the insane insight to good advantage, but since taking a break means taking advantage of a dinner invitation... 17:27:41 -!- davazp [n=user@72.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:28:30 antgreen [n=green@rrcs-71-41-33-194.se.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:28:43 locklace [i=locklace@gateway/tor/x-e8b9994db980ba1b] has joined #lisp 17:29:47 TravisD: It's indeed off topic. You usually don't try to code up a RAM emulator in a TM itself, but something on top of a TM which is already proven to be equivalent to a TM. 17:29:50 -!- dkcl [n=dkcl@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:30:23 perhaps write a RAM emulator in the lambda calculus? 17:30:43 -!- lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-15-172.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 17:31:03 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:31:37 davazp [n=user@72.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:32:05 chandler: I sent the mail once again. 17:32:12 tcr: Thanks. 17:33:17 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@108.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 17:33:29 -!- doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:33:53 la_mer_ [n=la_mer@static-151-203-190-231.wma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:54 dkcl [n=dkcl@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 17:34:13 -!- sykopomp` is 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[i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:22:36 Hun [n=Hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:22:42 binarycodes__ [n=sujoy@59.93.241.48] has joined #lisp 18:30:17 chandler: Any questions? 18:32:07 -!- ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:32:17 -!- manic12 [n=manic12@c-98-227-126-106.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:35:55 -!- maskd [i=maskd@unaffiliated/maskd] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:36:22 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4db6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["he he he"] 18:36:25 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-177-125.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:38:57 -!- binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.247.89] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 18:39:05 -!- binarycodes__ is now known as binarycodes 18:39:45 -!- antgreen [n=green@rrcs-71-41-33-194.se.biz.rr.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:42:11 -!- happycodemonkey [n=carriear@147.226.234.205] has quit [] 18:42:51 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 18:43:51 mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@92.112.23.215] has joined #lisp 18:44:55 x6j8x [n=x6j8x@77.21.43.186] has joined #lisp 18:45:50 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-a8cc8de1131592ed] has joined #lisp 18:49:58 -!- demoncyber_ [n=colmeia@200.18.7.16] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:53:01 -!- shawn-p [n=fake@65.172.162.106] has quit [] 18:53:57 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811112.orange.net.il] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:54:30 edon [n=edon@albalug/edon] has joined #lisp 18:57:09 epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has joined #lisp 18:58:17 vy [n=user@78.167.192.74] has joined #lisp 18:59:38 -!- mulligan [n=user@e178031069.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:02:30 does there some source code that uses cl-interpol out there? I'm trying to decide if I want to integrate it into my project 19:07:13 oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-176-18-217.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:15 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:08:54 I'm trying to set SLIME-COMPLETE-SYMBOL-FUNCTION specific to local SLIME-LISP-IMPLEMENTATION-NAME value. But elisp complains that SLIME-LISP-IMPLEMENTATION-NAME is a void-variable when I try to access it in a function hooked into the SLIME-MODE-HOOK. Any ideas? 19:08:54 -!- nostoi [n=nostoi@232.Red-83-61-175.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["Verlassend"] 19:11:10 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@220-253-146-77.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #lisp 19:13:42 -!- dthomp [n=dat@dyn-188-dynamic.linfield.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:18:00 -!- x6j8x [n=x6j8x@77.21.43.186] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:18:28 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has quit ["..."] 19:19:44 O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-65-112.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 19:25:07 chris2 [n=chris@ppp-88-217-64-74.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 19:26:06 tltstc` [n=nine@192.207.69.1] has joined #lisp 19:27:44 -!- chris2 [n=chris@ppp-88-217-64-74.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 19:27:56 chris2 [n=chris@ppp-88-217-64-74.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 19:28:47 ushdf [n=ushdf@syru217-183.syr.edu] has joined #lisp 19:30:23 -!- chris2 [n=chris@ppp-88-217-64-74.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Broken pipe] 19:30:36 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has joined #lisp 19:33:32 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 19:33:41 brill [n=brill@0x503e0b40.hrnxx2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 19:34:26 Evening. 19:35:59 heya. 19:36:28 kidd [n=kidd@167.Red-79-147-12.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:36:33 rme [n=rme@pool-70-106-128-43.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:06 Hi tic. 19:37:41 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #lisp 19:38:00 njsg [n=njsg@unaffiliated/njsg] has joined #lisp 19:38:39 chris2 [n=chris@ppp-88-217-64-74.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 19:39:43 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.108.5] has joined #lisp 19:41:24 -!- Wizard_ [n=wizard@90.150.121.212] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:41:50 Wizard_ [n=wizard@89.20.108.71] has joined #lisp 19:41:56 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 19:43:06 -!- trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:43:46 dlowe, bknr uses interpol 19:45:37 -!- g0ju [n=moo@dslb-088-075-059-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:47:17 -!- jso [n=user@host-9-143-107-208.midco.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:48:05 nurv101 [n=askmefor@bl10-229-22.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 19:48:05 -!- ebzzry_ [n=rmm@124.217.73.110] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:49:02 xan: yeah, I saw that. Do you know if the use is pervasive or selective? 19:49:50 ebzzry_ [n=rmm@124.217.73.110] has joined #lisp 19:50:10 jso [n=user@host-9-143-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 19:50:36 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Yay! I'm a Llama again!"] 19:51:31 FZ [n=chatzill@unaffiliated/fz] has joined #lisp 19:52:12 dlowe: it gets enabled in the files that use it 19:55:26 chris2_ [n=chris@ppp-88-217-64-74.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 19:56:17 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 20:03:40 -!- sledge [n=chris@pdpc/supporter/student/sledge] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:05:29 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-40.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 20:07:50 -!- epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:07:52 photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has joined #lisp 20:13:03 gavin_85938406 [n=gavin@116.22.70.71] has joined #lisp 20:13:10 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-102-97.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 20:13:21 -!- gavin_85938406 [n=gavin@116.22.70.71] has left #lisp 20:13:42 dkcl [n=dkcl@98.66.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 20:15:43 -!- chris2_ [n=chris@ppp-88-217-64-74.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Operation timed out] 20:18:18 chris2_ [n=chris@ppp-88-217-64-74.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 20:18:45 -!- Wizard_ [n=wizard@89.20.108.71] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:20:48 -!- chris2 [n=chris@ppp-88-217-64-74.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:23:00 -!- dkcl [n=dkcl@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:23:08 Wizard_ [n=wizard@90.150.209.211] has joined #lisp 20:23:12 chrisorange2 [n=chrisora@i59F750C9.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:24:06 ehu [i=52aa21ad@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-e60bea59a0aeb9d6] has joined #lisp 20:26:13 hi 20:26:19 was ist an lisp toll ? 20:26:45 something paid to the troll 20:27:07 I must have missed something? 20:27:09 what is ist? 20:27:14 merlincorey: German. 20:27:17 ah sorry 20:27:26 oooh ok it makes sense now :) 20:27:32 ;) 20:27:38 meine deutsche ist shlecht 20:27:56 #lisp talked t 20:28:02 to me in german :) 20:28:14 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:28:17 has #lisp mit dir gesprochen? 20:28:34 *tic* gives up on the German. 20:28:35 ja 20:28:53 (hast, not has) 20:29:14 kib2 [n=chatzill@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:32 so, why is lisp so usefull? :) i learned c++, what can lisp what c++ not can ? 20:29:49 It's programmable. 20:30:10 Lisp is garbage collected and dynamically typed, which means you do not need to worry about memory management. It is metaprogrammable, which means you can add new abstractions to the language. 20:30:39 Like C++ it has multiple inheritance, but unlike C++ it has multiple dispatch which allows a method to be chosen by looking at *all* of the parameters. 20:30:51 ah :) 20:31:14 you know c++ so how much do you know of template and c++ macro hell? imagine if all of that was done correctly, cleanly, and in the same language as the rest of your code 20:31:24 Like C++ it is typically compiled to machine code, but unlike C++ it has an interactive development environment where you can edit definitions of functions on the fly. 20:31:29 chrisorange2: it can go into space and run very long and then if there is an error it can open a RELP for debugging here onearth and then be resumed from where it left off... but it won't win code of the year because it's not in C++ 20:31:33 -!- vy [n=user@78.167.192.74] has left #lisp 20:31:48 s/RELP/REPL 20:31:48 laggy terminal >_< 20:31:52 There was a nice summary of Lisp somewhere in a text file. 20:31:53 like python ? 20:32:02 chrisorange2, but compiled to machine code. 20:32:06 oh iam not so good int c++ 20:32:08 and more powerful. 20:32:11 It has more flexibility than Python, but is much faster. 20:32:19 hanging on the pointers try to understand xD 20:32:21 http://abhishek.geek.nz/docs/features-of-common-lisp 20:32:29 epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has joined #lisp 20:32:38 -!- epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:33:02 oh stassats` thank you for the link 20:33:25 hmm 20:33:42 youst a stupid question, are there games with lisp ? 20:33:42 stassats`: I just added that one to minion. 20:34:40 minion: game? 20:34:40 game: The end of the page was reached before a definition was found in http://www.cliki.net/game 20:34:44 Doh. 20:35:14 minion: game? 20:35:15 game: Games in Common Lisp. http://www.cliki.net/game 20:35:15 chandler: lots of them including commercial games you buy in stores 20:35:26 sorry message meant for chrisorange2 20:35:36 merlincorey: heh. Do you have an example of that? 20:35:37 :) 20:35:48 *chandler* isn't aware of any commercial games, but I'm probably missing something. 20:35:59 Hm. I just found out about: http://common-lisp.net/project/pal/ 20:36:37 chandler: trying to remember the name of one of the major ones I am thinking of give me a minute :) 20:36:53 chandler: Well, there are those non-Common Lisp GOAL games ... Jak & Daxter, Crash Bandicoot ... 20:37:09 I remember there being a MMO game that used CL on the server side, but ISTR they are not using CL anymore. 20:37:37 sellout: well, I'd lump GOAL in the DSL category - an interesting use of Lisp to be sure, but probably not what a new user is looking for. 20:38:02 chandler: Agreed. But I think it's the source of the "commercial games" comment. 20:39:22 chandler: Naughty Dog games (Ratchet and Clank) used a lisp dialect to build many of their PS2 games. Moved to C++ for Playstation 3 - http://www.palgn.com.au/article.php?title=Naughty+Dog+Interview+Part+Two&id=9226&sid=4ef95f7476230846d7f981c68c08ad3c 20:39:41 merlincorey: This is the GOAL environment that sellout mentioned. 20:39:44 Jak and Dexter, as sellout mentioned 20:39:53 yes sorry I was behind because I was reading article :P 20:40:15 I think GOAL is its own animal. It is a very powerful demonstration of what you can do with a domain-specific language using Common Lisp, to be sure. 20:41:26 chrisorange2: Here is a good example of a game written in Common Lisp: http://erleuchtet.org/2008/03/project-overview-perfectstorm.html 20:41:36 merlincorey: Also, not Ratchet & Clank ... common mistake. That's Insomniac Games. They worked in the same offices for a while, but AFAIK, Insomniac never used GOAL or anything lispy. 20:42:14 chandler, thank you, that looks interisting 20:42:21 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 20:42:40 sellout: ach so interesting... Figures - I got the ratchet and clank from a slashdot posting that led me to the article I posted 20:42:52 should have known slashdot had the retarded 20:43:05 binarycodes__ [n=sujoy@59.93.192.118] has joined #lisp 20:43:29 where can i download it ? :) 20:43:41 -!- Wizard_ [n=wizard@90.150.209.211] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:44:05 chrisorange2: The source repository is given in the post; look for the SVN URL. 20:44:10 Wizard_ [n=wizard@89.20.104.205] has joined #lisp 20:44:12 It is not released yet, so you would have to build it yourself. 20:44:53 -!- kib2 [n=chatzill@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:44:57 chandler, can't open the svn link 20:45:03 Hm. I don't know then! 20:45:11 oh :( 20:45:46 -!- binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.241.48] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 20:45:49 -!- binarycodes__ is now known as binarycodes 20:46:41 a more in depth lisp and games related article here: http://www.gamasutra.com/features/19990813/languages_printerfriendly.htm 20:46:57 it's more evangilical about WHy games should use something like or is lisp 20:47:30 thank you merlincorey , bookmarked to :) 20:48:34 perfectstorm is also in the clbuild stuff 20:48:40 minion: clbuild 20:48:41 clbuild: clbuild [common-lisp.net] is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 20:48:54 nurv101` [n=askmefor@74.85.13.61] has joined #lisp 20:51:26 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 20:53:02 the way python conflates binding and assignment also weirds me out, and its scoping rules are unfathomable 20:53:08 -!- nurv101 [n=askmefor@bl10-229-22.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:53:23 guido needs to take a year-long sabbatical on a hawaiian beach with nothing but an unlimited supply of kona and cltl2 20:54:31 python has scoping rules? i always thought i just needed to do some arcane stuff to get it to work 20:54:52 agnel [n=joel@115.99.2.68] has joined #lisp 20:55:17 by "rules" i mean "whatever the code actually does" 20:55:53 nurv101`` [n=askmefor@bl10-229-22.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 20:56:07 kleppari [n=spa@nat1-krokhals.netberg.is] has joined #lisp 20:56:30 if it doesn't work at first try, pack every var into a 1-sized array and pray it'll work 20:56:51 usually it does 20:57:25 -!- milanj [n=milan@212.200.223.122] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:58:55 -!- umis [n=umis@prudent-gloryer.volia.net] has quit [] 20:59:25 -!- binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.192.118] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:00:21 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 21:02:49 i was amused to see that PEP 3124 basically tries to add (a small subset of) CLOS to python, which might make the object system more usable 21:03:07 but of course it's just sitting there gathering cobwebs 21:04:05 gfs are nice. 21:04:30 PEP are just proposals that guido may take into account, or simply ignore? 21:04:45 the first. 21:04:59 The first of what? 21:05:16 D'oh. Yes, they can be taken in or refused. 21:05:26 or rather, accepted-and-waiting-for-implementation. 21:05:41 there is often a lot of discussion involved. 21:06:40 I think that's mistaken. I'd also frown upon CDRs that are not backed up by an implementation of whatever it proposes into an existing CL implementation. 21:07:49 Hrm, @overload/@when in terms of classes was trickier. 21:08:03 -!- twopoint718 [n=chris@adsl-76-208-67-150.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 21:10:17 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:10:39 tcr: you mean mistaken in that it's useless to spend time debating proposals if they haven't already been implemented and shown to work well? 21:13:04 -!- nurv101` [n=askmefor@74.85.13.61] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:14:00 kib2 [n=chatzill@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:18:47 locklace: realistically implementable, at least. 21:19:33 -!- O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-65-112.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [] 21:19:54 -!- chrisorange2 [n=chrisora@i59F750C9.versanet.de] has quit ["Verlassend"] 21:19:54 sure. i think it would be pretty cool to have a pseudo-standardisation effort for realistically-implementable CL proposals 21:19:59 -!- elurin [n=user@85.104.132.54] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:20:58 it seems reasonable to hope for things like a somewhat standard network api 21:21:09 -!- Wizard_ [n=wizard@89.20.104.205] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:23:15 Wizard_ [n=wizard@94.50.160.46] has joined #lisp 21:23:26 frosty00014 [n=Frostysn@gateway.catlin.edu] has joined #lisp 21:24:17 -!- vcgomes is now known as vcgomes[away] 21:31:09 -!- Jasko3 [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:31:31 milanj [n=milan@212.200.194.204] has joined #lisp 21:31:41 chandler: Have you looked at the patches? (I don't want to be pushy, but I'd really to do some more reader-related work, but my branch diverged quite a bit already, and it makes me feel queasy to diverge even more.) 21:33:45 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 21:35:01 dthomp [n=dat@dyn-188-dynamic.linfield.edu] has joined #lisp 21:35:08 dkcl [n=dkcl@98.66.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 21:35:28 -!- ehu [i=52aa21ad@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-e60bea59a0aeb9d6] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 21:35:55 -!- frosty00014 [n=Frostysn@gateway.catlin.edu] has quit [] 21:36:13 benny99 [n=bebenny@p5486CF2E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:07 epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has joined #lisp 21:39:29 evenin' 21:40:36 ello 21:41:23 ehu [i=52aa21ad@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-39e71026ee2d6e3f] has joined #lisp 21:41:50 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 21:46:13 algowuz [n=n-1@79.99.2.65] has joined #lisp 21:47:25 -!- njsg [n=njsg@unaffiliated/njsg] has quit ["gone"] 21:47:28 -!- kleppari [n=spa@nat1-krokhals.netberg.is] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:47:34 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:20 -!- nurv101`` [n=askmefor@bl10-229-22.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:50:23 tcr: I have not had a chance to look at it yet, sorry. It is a big patch. If you want it committed (and I am still open to doing that when I next have time), here is what I would ask: 21:50:46 -!- agnel [n=joel@115.99.2.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:51:24 tcr: gzip the patch file (as you sent it to me, it's inline in a MIME rich text email - yuck!), and attach it to a mail to sbcl-devel explaining what is cleaned up, and verify that it does not affect either SBCL tests or ANSI tests 21:51:49 O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-65-112.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 21:52:10 tcr: Verifying that it does not change the ANSI test results would be most beneficial. 21:52:24 chandler: It's not one patch, but four. Gnus seems to handle it just fine. 21:52:39 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:52:41 chandler: How do I do that? 21:52:58 Hm, this doesn't seem to be well documented anywhere, does it. 21:54:18 tcr: check out GCL from CVS; cd gcl/ansi-tests; export LISP=sbcl; make test 21:54:37 Sounds easy enough. 21:57:41 -!- holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:59:19 irks, gcl comes with copies of the source of gnu binutils? 21:59:44 It does? 21:59:50 You can probably just co gcl/ansi-tests 22:00:55 When I get my next major hacking Round Tuit, I'm going to update my old daily-tests scripts to make it easy to build and test SBCL from a git repository. 22:01:02 chandler: Are there known regressions? 22:01:13 You should do a before + after test. 22:02:23 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["*poof*"] 22:02:25 minion: memo for nikodemus: I just signed up for an ohloh account, and it delivered a kudos from you. Thanks, however belated this may be! 22:02:26 Remembered. I'll tell nikodemus when he/she/it next speaks. 22:03:51 elurin [n=user@85.104.132.54] has joined #lisp 22:04:05 -!- sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [] 22:05:29 -!- phytovor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:06:20 -!- kami-` [n=user@p4FD3874B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:07:22 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-177-125.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:08:18 -!- cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has quit [] 22:13:25 -!- benny99 [n=bebenny@p5486CF2E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:16:15 JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:19:07 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:19:26 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 22:21:59 -!- vcgomes[away] is now known as vcgomes 22:24:37 -!- brill [n=brill@0x503e0b40.hrnxx2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 22:26:02 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 22:27:05 ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:19 Led-Hed [n=LedHed@75.151.70.113] has joined #lisp 22:28:41 anyone here know of an AutoLISP IRC channel? 22:29:03 AutoLISP = AutoCAD LISP 22:29:20 No. I can assure you it wouldn't be on Freenode, but that's about it. 22:29:50 ok thanks 22:32:04 lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:32:10 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:32:32 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 22:34:55 err` [n=user@adsl-074-166-047-242.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:57 holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #lisp 22:39:38 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:41:08 -!- ivanst_ [i=ivans@93-136-58-35.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:41:24 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:44:06 ivanst_ [i=ivans@93-136-31-103.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 22:44:25 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:49:37 maskd [i=maskd@unaffiliated/maskd] has joined #lisp 22:51:48 lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:54:11 IPmonger [n=ipmonger@166.199.22.81] has joined #lisp 22:55:04 -!- ehu [i=52aa21ad@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-39e71026ee2d6e3f] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 22:55:45 -!- dkcl [n=dkcl@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:55:48 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:55:49 -!- IPmonger [n=ipmonger@166.199.22.81] has left #lisp 22:56:09 -!- vasa [n=vasa@mm-236-93-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 22:59:00 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:01:05 -!- edon [n=edon@albalug/edon] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 23:01:45 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 23:01:45 lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:02:11 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-3143e455.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:02:36 -!- milanj [n=milan@212.200.194.204] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:05:08 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o chandler 23:06:37 milanj [n=milan@212.200.194.204] has joined #lisp 23:07:39 -!- chandler has set mode -o chandler 23:14:07 Kickaha [n=jadawin@162.7.103.87.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 23:14:14 -!- Kickaha [n=jadawin@162.7.103.87.rev.vodafone.pt] has left #lisp 23:16:21 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 23:17:38 -!- nullwork [n=kyle@c-24-245-23-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:18:13 nullwork [n=kyle@c-24-245-23-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:20:40 -!- JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:20:44 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Yay! I'm a Llama again!"] 23:20:53 lyte_ [n=lyte@220-244-221-67-nsw-pppoe.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:21:06 -!- vcgomes is now known as vcgomes[away] 23:22:58 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless119.cs.wisc.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:24:56 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:25:14 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:27:38 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-67-168-159-175.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:27:54 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 23:32:05 <_deepfire> so, CLIM doesn't specify interactions with clipboard, right? 23:32:35 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:32:54 -!- Hun [n=Hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:33:38 -!- malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbd6e1.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit ["Verlassend"] 23:34:14 -!- jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:34:33 -!- O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-65-112.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [] 23:36:18 *pinterface* grumbles at clisp for doing #\Newline -> CRLF translation on #\Linefeed when writing :dos line-endings. 23:38:01 _deepfire: it does not 23:40:55 Ok, I've never actually understood shadowing. How can I have a symbol foo:atom that is distinct from cl:atom if foo uses cl? 23:41:34 ah, I have to export the shadowed symbol. 23:43:23 -!- lyte_ [n=lyte@220-244-221-67-nsw-pppoe.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:44:00 <_deepfire> hefner, what do you think about Lispworks' CAPI? 23:44:40 _deepfire: I've never had the privilege of using it, but I suspect it is very nice 23:45:11 <_deepfire> hefner, sadly the API doc they have is a useless flat list of functions 23:45:51 -!- Led-Hed [n=LedHed@75.151.70.113] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:49:00 sounds like an adventure. 23:49:36 <_deepfire> hmm, cll isn't exactly flooded by CAPI talk.. 23:50:40 "Lisp Hug" probably has CAPI talk 23:51:49 -!- ushdf [n=ushdf@syru217-183.syr.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 23:51:49 So I'm sitting here with clsql, and I've done a (def-view-class foo (gm-wgt :reader gm-wgt :type long-float :initarg :gm-wgt)) this with sqlite saying gm_wgt being "double precision". and now it seems that I should have specified it as STRING in the view-class.. Is this correct? 23:52:33 -!- kib2 [n=chatzill@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092417]"] 23:53:26 (select 'foo) gives me a nice story about 227.0d0 not being of type STRING 23:55:55 jadawin_ [n=jadawin@162.7.103.87.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 23:56:44 -!- pkhuong [n=pkhuong@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:56:55 Or maybe clsql is broken. 23:56:57 hrm 23:57:57 lyte_ [n=lyte@220-244-221-67-nsw-pppoe.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:58:26 -!- acrid [n=mckay@reverse.control4.com] has quit ["Leaving."]