00:00:25 chandler: i rebuilt sbcl with a few more stuff in customize-local*-expr, forgot the funky name 00:00:51 you should use the contrib that comes with that version of sbcl 00:01:05 I enabled support for M-., IEEE floating point, builtin docstrings, fluid sbcl, etc. 00:01:17 everything is from there, no kidding 00:01:30 you're doing something wrong 00:02:02 i got that hint the first time i saw "bogus_stack", earlier today 00:02:15 ieee-floating-point is also not something you need to enable by hand 00:02:21 nor is M-., nor sb-doc 00:02:33 sb-fluid is known to break things, and is not worthwhile unless you are hacking on sbcl itself 00:03:48 sctb [n=sebell@S01060016cbc2d41a.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:54 I AM hacking sbcl itself; I'm sure SLDB has an IRC backend. debugging by public queries it's called :-P 00:04:20 anyway, back to running public bin 00:04:49 Zoba [i=Zoba@wva4448rn.rh.ncsu.edu] has joined #lisp 00:04:56 you should not be using sb-fluid unless you know what you are doing, and you don't. 00:05:19 you should not need to manually erase fasls in /usr/local/lib/sbcl unless you are not setting SBCL_HOME properly 00:06:19 i haven't set SBCL_HOME manually (never had to do it, actually) so i guess that might be the problem 00:06:50 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.178.248] has quit [] 00:09:31 ccl-logbot [n=ccl-logb@master.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 00:09:31 00:09:31 -!- names: ccl-logbot syamajala Zoba sctb myrkraverk` bpt attila_lendvai xjrn Sinden fusss yangsx kidd ``Erik abeaumont qbg gigamonkey ths_ Athas konr`` sellout cmm rpg fph bombshelter13 kwertii disumu kpreid Jasko housel prip topo Krystof jao vixey elurin Modius froog_ bakkdoor lemonodor tltstc` stassats` rme epoch Odin- benny ahaas x6j8x ug ThomasI cracki schme_ mrsolo dialtone Adamant Chrononaut enn creddy prxq ia c|mell inetic tritchey sohail seelenquell__ 00:09:31 -!- names: daniel_ z0d persi jajcloz cods Soulman segv_ krumholt pinterface pchrist xinming _deepfire djinni` dash_ tst___ l_a_m VityokOrgUa boyscared mikezor ivansto tiesje photon eno wchogg srcerer adicarlo manic12 S11001001 dmiles_afk kleppari gjvc PissedNumlock eevar Wombat1 cmeme beach mdxi REPLeffect jlouis jeremiah scode Bucciarati mornfall specbot thijso kmkaplan jrockway sbok Cel Tristam esden Maghnus Patzy mgr sabetts djkthx eirik puddingpimp 00:09:31 -!- names: JuanDaugherty Liempt holycow nurv101 Tordek pitui yango larstobi pchrist|univ araujo ivarref e271 kidd2 jmcphers lucca Cryovat tarbo envi^office alexsuraci isomer proq abend a-s joga defn hugod jollygood_______ herbieB pok guenther__ l4ndfo p8m Guest53748 nowhere_man spiderbyte aking V-ille wgl mathrick merlincorey tessier Xof spiaggia knobo cky t huangjs thedonvaughn mogunus bedlam matthew` felipe Partyzant ineiros rlpowell kreuter olejorgenb 00:09:31 -!- names: hsaliak brickhazel mcxx slash_ lnostdal nullwork_ nullwork myrkraverk intrados rdd Khisanth Zhivago jsimonss sykopomp locklace fihi09 vcgomes[away] _8david hefner borism nyef ianmcorvidae r0bby arbscht turbo24prg bascule m4thrick Ifur phadthai drewc azuk slyrus johs bougyman sjbach tltstc DrForr nasloc__ luis kuwabara yahooooo wlr authentic xristos agemo erg minion joshe Riastradh Thas Draggor xan retupmoca _CitizenKane_ keithr dto Soulman__ 00:09:31 -!- names: froydnj bob_f rread spacebat bdowning delYsid Paraselene_ gz antifuchs Aisling pkhuong rey_ qebab Ash emma rsynnott plutonas adeht Balooga dfox chandler jolby technik pragma_ xian michaelw jsnell jkantz andrewy SUNWjoejaxx Adrinael bfein foom dcrawford clog faheem tic mvilleneuve bunz esden`away bohanlon mqt Eno_ maxote lisppaste zbigniew albino fnordus mtd _3b esden_ maskd andrerav Xach dostoyevsky Fade chii Fractal jamesjb rumbleca dublpaws 00:09:36 you have your alphabet as "a", "b", and "selected" 00:09:45 -!- qbg [n=qbg@rn084084.morris.umn.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:09:56 Can anyone reccomend a simple to setup and use way of getting Lisp to output (2D) graphics? 00:10:15 -!- Sinden [n=Sinden@nickweinhold.demon.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:10:16 -!- tst___ [n=Tim@p4FD2FC21.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 00:10:18 Zoba: What do you mean by "output"? 00:10:20 ] 00:10:20 Zoba: static images or interactive/animated? 00:10:26 Write to a file? To the screen? 00:10:35 olejorgenb: what does "selector" do? 00:10:55 it returns a boolean 00:11:04 http://pastebin.com/f61c9c8d1 00:11:05 chandler, to the screen. Basically if I can make a box move around in a circle pattern on the screen, then I can do what I want to do 00:11:07 c code 00:11:21 fusss, animated, but not necessarily interactive 00:11:45 Zoba: I know just what you want, Vecto :-) 00:11:50 minion: vecto 00:11:51 vecto: Vecto is a graphics library that uses cl-vectors and ZPNG to draw vector graphics to PNG files. http://www.cliki.net/vecto 00:11:53 lisppaste: url? 00:11:53 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 00:12:29 Zoba: I generate PNG images with vecto and combine them into an animated gif with imagemagic :-) 00:12:41 -!- myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:12:54 fusss, haha, really? Can I see some? 00:13:10 -!- photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:13:25 sure, wait 00:14:40 olejorgenb: you don't need pointers in CL 00:14:56 fusss: Note that he is using an int pointer, which is not an intrinsic concept in CL. 00:15:10 yeah 00:15:20 i haven't seen stuff like that in ages 00:15:39 Generally I'd say that if you are asking this question, you are probably not expressing what you are doing in an idiomatic CL style. 00:16:07 olejorgenb: is the "body of text" sequences? lists? does it have sublists? 00:16:19 i.e. is it a list or (another sequence) or a tree? 00:16:40 fusss: skippy can get partway there. 00:16:53 fusss: there isn't really a color reduction / dithering step though. 00:17:13 and of course the internal representation of the canvas isn't available... 00:17:23 but i used vecto and skippy for screedbot, and that worked ok 00:17:27 minion: skippy 00:17:28 skippy: Skippy is a graphics library that reads and writes GIF files. http://www.cliki.net/skippy 00:18:05 Zoba: http://img406.imageshack.us/my.php?image=animatedre4.gif 00:18:08 Is there anything similar to Java's canvas? 00:18:31 that is an example from the Vecto documentation, I just generated a sequence of images and made them to a gif 00:18:56 Zoba: i have been playing with LTK lately (again) 00:19:10 it has a canvas right there in the first chapter of the interoduction 00:19:36 but that will give you a "GUI", as opposed to animated gif ;-) 00:19:47 photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has joined #lisp 00:19:49 fuss, I was looking at that but couldn't get it to work right away...I'll go give it another shot now that I know someone uses it 00:20:16 fusss: its just some code. eg. (progn (setf selected (foo a b)) (bar a b)) 00:20:28 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 00:20:40 chandler: yes, that is kinda the problem 00:21:26 Zoba: http://www.xach.com/lisp/vecto/ 00:21:33 olejorgenb: there are ways around this, but it is not a common thing to do 00:21:53 Zoba: and here is the feed example, animated http://img129.imageshack.us/my.php?image=feedbf0.gif 00:21:53 chandler: I guess it's not a lispy thing to do, no 00:22:40 dydx [n=dydx@adsl-217-252-16.ags.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:59 vtz [n=user@router2-border.mreja.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:21 fusss, thanks a bunch for the links. I'm going to check it out now 00:23:35 olejorgenb: if it's Lisp, then "just some code" is a tree :-) descend on your on your cars and cdrs til you hit atom or null, then go back up :-) 00:24:33 yes, I guess a macro could do it, but it still feels like a lot of duplicated code 00:24:49 olejorgenb: no, no macro, read your SICP again 00:24:58 here is a hint, you need two functions 00:25:19 http://pastebin.com/f995fb06 00:25:26 one that chooses which item (a or b) needs to be replaced in "body" 00:25:36 if I have setfs, I need a macro? 00:25:41 no need for setf right 00:26:17 ...what are you doing? 00:26:36 The Gentle Intro to CL has some excellent tips on recognizing recursion patterns 00:26:55 olejorgenb: I can't read that site; it comes out light text on grey on my screen 00:27:13 chandler pasted "how to do this in lisp, if you need it" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/69478 00:27:40 olejorgenb: if you need it, that is how you would do it 00:27:57 but, it is an uncommon thing to need, so it is possible you have structured the solution to your problem unidiomatically 00:28:33 (defun replace-selected (a b) (if (selector a b) (tree-replace-atom 'a body) (tree-replace-atom 'b body))) 00:28:42 fusss: bad idea, don't even go down that road 00:29:13 chandler: he is asking for some _basic_ rule rewriting, i think 00:29:25 no, he is asking for a substitute for the C code he pasted 00:29:28 It not something I currently need in a lisp program, but I saw it in C and couldn't figure out a clean way of doing it in cl 00:29:42 chandler: yes, that seems to do what I want 00:33:41 olejorgenb: you can even wrap it up with (symbol-macrolet ((selected (locative-value locative))) ...), which is somewhat akin to C++ references 00:37:23 olejorgenb: let's say "body" is (a a b b a b a b aa), if selector(a,b) returns 1, meaning b is chosen, then would the result be (a a :selected :selected a :selected a :selected a a)? 00:37:27 something like that? 00:38:38 fusss: No. It appears you are trying to pass on your confusion to other people. Please stop. 00:39:04 I already answered olejorgenb's question. If you do not understand how my paste answered it, then you do not understand his question. 00:39:07 fusss: almost: body = (a b selected). result = (a b b) 00:39:28 i give up :-P 00:39:50 fusss: thanks for trying :) 00:40:14 olejorgenb: Don't thank him. He is trying to make everyone as confused as he is! 00:40:19 I guess I could've formulated my question better 00:40:33 *fusss* wishes people would standardize on lisp debugger escaping commands. gaah restarts! 00:40:43 olejorgenb: It took seeing the C to understand it. 00:41:35 I guess you'd have to wrap a and b in tables in python.. 00:42:16 -!- epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has quit ["  "] 00:43:11 -!- disumu [n=disumu@p57A24191.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["watching a movie"] 00:44:28 -!- vtz [n=user@router2-border.mreja.net] has left #lisp 00:44:34 jtoy [n=jtoy@58.61.221.101] has joined #lisp 00:45:21 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@v113243.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit ["Instain to the do way"] 00:50:44 -!- bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdsl-92-252-22-56.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [] 00:51:18 epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has joined #lisp 00:59:14 echo-area [n=user@cmdev1.test.cnz.alimama.com] has joined #lisp 01:01:45 -!- ug [n=merlin@67.159.169.138] has quit ["leaving"] 01:14:33 cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has joined #lisp 01:14:34 O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-118-103.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 01:18:50 -!- echo-area [n=user@cmdev1.test.cnz.alimama.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:19:35 -!- Zoba [i=Zoba@wva4448rn.rh.ncsu.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:19:37 Zoba [n=Zoba@wva4333rn.rh.ncsu.edu] has joined #lisp 01:20:41 -!- cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has quit [] 01:23:24 -!- inetic [n=inetic@chello082119124030.chello.sk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:24:47 -!- lemonodor [n=lemonodo@66.43.112.62] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:30:11 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.178.248] has quit [] 01:31:25 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 01:32:36 anyone here run slime with Corman Lisp 3.0? 01:38:46 wasabi_ [n=wasabi@p4132-ipbfp04kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:40:28 ths [n=ths@X7c88.x.pppool.de] has joined #lisp 01:45:09 -!- krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-202-28-17.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:46:58 -!- sctb [n=sebell@S01060016cbc2d41a.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:47:08 -!- photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:47:37 sudoer [n=jtoy@58.61.220.143] has joined #lisp 01:48:04 prxq_ [n=mommer@Zef02.z.pppool.de] has joined #lisp 01:48:41 -!- prxq [n=mommer@Ya614.y.pppool.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:55:08 -!- jtoy [n=jtoy@58.61.221.101] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:55:35 Hm. There are prebuilt Debian Etch images for QEmu SPARC and MIPS system emulation. I wonder if these are fast enough to build SBCL releases on sanely. 01:56:05 -!- ths_ [n=ths@X5f28.x.pppool.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:56:19 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:56:30 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 01:56:54 -!- Wombat1 [n=willy@216-31-242-4.static-ip.telepacific.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:56:55 -!- Zoba [n=Zoba@wva4333rn.rh.ncsu.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:58:29 heh 02:00:01 -!- jao [n=user@186.Red-81-32-186.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:00:36 what do most mips owners run anyway? I'm sure the last few SGI machines are running IRIX 02:00:57 There are a number of networking appliances that use Linux on MIPS. 02:01:29 by a large lead in fact, just the routers 02:01:56 but desktops, where one might run a lisp, is often Vendor OS(TM) 02:02:16 but anyone who wants Lisp can probably stomach an OS change 02:02:42 I don't think many people are using SBCL on MIPS. ths keeps it working, and he has access to some Broadcom Swarm machines that are used for Debian builds. 02:02:49 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 02:03:15 -!- topo [n=topo@200.37.161.41] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:04:00 no idea 02:04:32 OT: chandler, how is your programming language coming? 02:04:49 i would google, but forgot the name 02:06:12 ... I have dabbled with a few things, so I'm not sure what you're referring to. 02:06:25 Whatever it is is probably dead at this point. 02:06:38 it was fairly big, own channel and such 02:06:44 No, that's not me. 02:06:47 mix of smalltalk, sort self like 02:06:57 That sounds like Brian Rice's Slate project. 02:07:13 yeah, that is not yours? :-P sorry 02:07:21 No, because I am not Brian Rice. 02:07:43 fair enough 02:08:24 c|mell [n=cmell@61.121.210.70] has joined #lisp 02:11:33 haiwei [n=haiwei@192.9.202.3] has joined #lisp 02:11:56 photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has joined #lisp 02:15:13 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-133-170-239.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:19:19 topo [n=topo@200.37.161.41] has joined #lisp 02:21:48 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-050c807ceb73c9f7] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:23:46 -!- pitui [n=pitui@doh.research.att.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:27:50 jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-19.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 02:29:35 abend_ [n=sasha@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has joined #lisp 02:34:16 qbg [n=qbg@rn084084.morris.umn.edu] has joined #lisp 02:35:11 happycodemonkey [n=carriear@147.226.193.131] has joined #lisp 02:35:39 -!- tltstc` [n=nine@192.207.69.1] has quit [] 02:37:31 -!- haiwei [n=haiwei@192.9.202.3] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:37:41 rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-38-179.lns2.cbr1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:44:00 topo_ [n=topo@200.37.161.41] has joined #lisp 02:44:01 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-161-25.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:44:12 -!- abend [n=sasha@sub26-151.member.dsl-only.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:44:50 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@30.pool85-49-182.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:45:50 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@30.pool85-49-182.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 02:52:44 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:53:19 tiesje` [n=user@202.51.72.181] has joined #lisp 03:01:22 -!- topo [n=topo@200.37.161.41] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:02:26 rtoym [n=chatzill@user-0c8hpll.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 03:02:54 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-229-68.dsl.look.ca] has quit ["Where is the glory in complying with demands?"] 03:04:09 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:04:58 -!- topo_ [n=topo@200.37.161.41] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:05:55 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 03:05:55 topo [n=topo@200.37.161.41] has joined #lisp 03:07:32 haiwei [n=haiwei@192.9.202.3] has joined #lisp 03:07:40 topo_ [n=topo@200.37.161.41] has joined #lisp 03:08:11 -!- qbg [n=qbg@rn084084.morris.umn.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:09:19 topo__ [n=topo@200.37.161.41] has joined #lisp 03:12:01 bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has joined #lisp 03:14:18 -!- topo [n=topo@200.37.161.41] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:15:42 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:16:38 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:17:09 -!- holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:17:30 -!- topo_ [n=topo@200.37.161.41] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:18:01 -!- kwertii [n=kwertii@c-71-202-121-102.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit ["bye"] 03:18:08 -!- rtoym [n=chatzill@user-0c8hpll.cable.mindspring.com] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092417]"] 03:18:16 kwertii [n=kwertii@c-71-202-121-102.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:22:40 -!- elurin [n=user@81.213.203.109] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:26:14 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:26:44 evening 03:28:54 -!- O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-118-103.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Come alive!"] 03:29:02 sunwukong [n=salvi@ortros.den.rcast.u-tokyo.ac.jp] has joined #lisp 03:29:53 mornin' 03:32:59 ttessier [n=chatzill@d121-146-132.home3.cgocable.net] has joined #lisp 03:34:35 hello 03:35:59 -!- dydx [n=dydx@adsl-217-252-16.ags.bellsouth.net] has left #lisp 03:36:49 Hello topo__ 03:37:24 hello scheme 03:37:42 schme 03:40:24 do you understand what is doing this code? 03:40:28 http://paste.lisp.org/display/50549 03:41:25 (defun aux-function () 03:41:25 (print "hello!")) 03:41:29 opps sorry 03:41:48 linyoweb [n=lorenzo@59.69.74.63] has joined #lisp 03:43:33 I'll look. 03:45:26 topo__: Which part of it is it that is troubling you? 03:45:38 nothing 03:45:57 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:45:58 i just dont understand why does it delete the "print hello" 03:46:24 when i execute (main-function) 03:46:29 topo__: Have you looked at the COMPILE entry in the hyperspec? 03:46:37 -!- bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:46:44 no 03:46:47 im gonna check now 03:46:54 topo__: Even more fun is that if you run AUX-FUNCTION after you've run MAIN-FUNCTION you'll get "goodbye" 03:47:42 topo__: "If a non-nil name is given, then the resulting compiled function replaces the existing 03:47:46 function definition of name" 03:47:51 yes i know 03:48:00 but why the hello dissapear? 03:48:06 "hello" 03:48:08 What do you mean it dissapears? 03:48:20 oh it replaces 03:48:43 -!- linyoweb [n=lorenzo@59.69.74.63] has left #lisp 03:48:54 I get "hello" "goodbye" "goodbye" as output. 03:49:04 Which seems to be correct :) 03:49:19 well "hello" "goodbye" as output. But you get what I mean. 03:49:21 now try (aux-function) 03:49:34 Yes. and it returns "goodbye!" 03:49:43 and prints "goodbye!" too. 03:49:44 only goodbye 03:50:20 Yes. 03:50:27 -!- ttessier [n=chatzill@d121-146-132.home3.cgocable.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092417]"] 03:50:46 Because you have replaced the function with the goobye-printing function 03:51:29 ummm 03:52:05 and in which cases does this can be useful for? 03:52:09 :P 03:52:22 AUX-FUNCTION was bound to the hello function, and then you rebind it to the goodbye function. 03:52:58 ok i understand 03:52:59 -!- tiesje` [n=user@202.51.72.181] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:53:27 Well I'm not sure about replacing toplevel definitions like that.. but replacing functions in various places seems a not so bad idea at all in my book. 03:53:43 your book? 03:53:46 did you write a book? 03:53:56 No. It's just an expression. 03:53:59 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@pool-72-66-40-106.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:54:06 ah ok 03:54:10 Though I suppose it could be good if you have a piece of software running, and it's a bit buggy. 03:54:18 and you want to replace a function without restarting the whole thing. 03:54:43 oh 03:55:18 is this can be useful for restructuring code while the app is working? 03:55:29 Yes. 03:55:39 pinterface1 [n=pixel@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has joined #lisp 03:55:56 -!- xinming [n=hyy@218.73.134.228] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:56:28 i want to be able to randonly change the other of the lines of an app 03:56:35 why the app is working 03:56:41 Though I'd wager that most people would be using DEFUN and not COMPILE. 03:56:52 Ok. What is stopping you from doing that? 03:57:14 haha, nothing, im just thinking how to do that 03:57:33 Oh ok. 03:57:55 Well one way is to have something running with SWANK and connect to it and just eval new stuff at the repl. 03:58:10 or load definitions from a file.. from the repl. 03:58:35 Good morning. 03:58:49 mornin' beach 03:58:51 scheme_ 03:58:56 morning beach 03:59:04 scheme_ for example something like this: 03:59:12 topo pasted "random" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/69486 03:59:40 change the order of lines of code 03:59:49 :P 04:00:06 what do you think is the best way of doing this? 04:00:22 topo__: generate the code on the fly and use compile rather than compile-file 04:00:57 Oh that is a good use of compile. 04:01:29 ummmm 04:02:46 xinming [n=hyy@218.73.135.227] has joined #lisp 04:03:02 how do i generate the code in the fly? 04:03:17 using list, random, etc. 04:03:22 Ok tea is done :) 04:03:36 random-elt (list) 04:03:43 (elt list (random (length list)))) 04:04:02 stuff like that 04:05:02 -!- tiesje [n=user@202.51.72.181] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:06:48 photon2 [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has joined #lisp 04:08:49 -!- kwertii [n=kwertii@c-71-202-121-102.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit ["bye"] 04:09:26 ok breakfast down 04:11:57 -!- pinterface [n=pixel@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:13:06 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:14:00 -!- epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has quit ["  "] 04:15:59 and what about if i want that my generated code respect some sintantic rules? 04:16:16 such as? 04:17:25 check this: 04:17:26 http://paste.lisp.org/display/69487 04:18:05 go example i need that always the push-matrix function is before (pop-matrix function 04:18:08 tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has joined #lisp 04:18:15 *for example i need that always the push-matrix function is before (pop-matrix function 04:18:18 gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-184-207-175.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:18:39 -!- gigamonk` is now known as gigamonkey` 04:18:44 Reaver_1 [n=m@193.108.254.83] has joined #lisp 04:18:58 i can create random code, but i want that my random code respect some rules 04:19:07 topo__: I suppose you would have to test for that and reject the randomly generated code if it is no good. 04:19:14 -!- Reaver_1 [n=m@193.108.254.83] has left #lisp 04:19:43 you mean creating a lot of codes until it fits in what i need? 04:19:45 Is this some one million monkey experiment? 04:19:59 i dont want one million monkey experiment 04:20:03 Or just randomise parts of it. 04:20:07 i want that my code respects rules 04:20:19 ummmm 04:20:27 Right. Then you add those rules to your code generating bit. 04:20:39 how? 04:21:01 Xof: herep 04:21:21 topo__: you need a *billion* monkeys. Trust me on this. 04:21:22 topo__: How are you generating your random code? 04:21:31 -!- photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:21:44 scheme check this: 04:21:47 http://paste.lisp.org/display/69487 04:21:55 a biilion :O 04:22:28 topo__: please learn to format lisp code properly. all but the most brain-dead of editors should be able to do this for you. 04:22:47 ok sorry 04:24:10 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.252.13] has joined #lisp 04:24:20 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.252.13] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:25:46 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:25:49 binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.199.227] has joined #lisp 04:39:09 well time for work. have a good one #lisp 04:39:23 bye 04:39:27 topo__: you could use a probablistic grammer. 04:39:45 topo__: like, run the CYK algorithm backwards with a weighted grammer. to get syntax constraints on generated code. 04:39:45 one question how can i avoid infinity recursive ? 04:39:51 for exmaple in this example 04:39:53 I'm *sure* there's a better way to do that. 04:39:58 BUt it's all I can think of. 04:40:13 probabilistic gramar? 04:40:28 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stochastic_context-free_grammar 04:40:39 ok cool thanks 04:42:13 how can i avoid infinite recursive in this example? 04:42:13 http://paste.lisp.org/display/69488 04:42:48 topo__: you really must start indenting your code. 04:43:02 whats wrong? 04:43:11 It has no indentation. 04:43:32 And the last two parens are lonely on a line by themselves. 04:43:37 you mean the 2 last )) are in bad place? 04:43:48 appart of that whats wrong? 04:43:50 Yes. But the lack of indentation is the far worse sin. 04:44:02 Do you notice how all the lines start in column 0? 04:44:21 oh yes 04:44:23 That's *very wrong* 04:44:25 I'm reading a math book right now, which is on my desk, and my keyboard's on my lap. I just reached the end of a page and compulsively did C-v to try to flip it :< 04:44:40 sorry you are right 04:44:56 *gigamonkey`* tried to yank some text from an Emacs buffer onto his pad of paper earlier today. 04:45:31 this may or may not be unhealthy. I'm not sure what to think of it. 04:46:05 ok here it is 04:46:08 http://paste.lisp.org/display/69489 04:46:19 do anybody have any idea of avoiding the infinite recursive? 04:46:59 You need to provide a base case for the recursion 04:47:01 creddy_ [n=CrazyEdd@220-253-113-170.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #lisp 04:47:13 topo__: recursion must have a base case, or a 'stop condition' 04:47:24 *gigamonkey`* wins! 04:47:29 topo__: otherwise, it's like writing a while loop 04:47:36 gigamonkey`: maybe if enough people tell him... >_> 04:47:36 ummmm 04:48:02 topo__: i.e. (if (stop-p state) (return) (recurse state)) 04:48:07 In other words there should be a path through make-expression that doesn't result in another call to make-expression. 04:48:34 ummm 04:48:45 I realize weak hash tables (as abstracted between implementations via trivial-garbage) aren't standard; but how are "reference holds" for entries in weak hash table generally handled when the key or value is an integer? 04:49:10 Does having an integer there guarantee retention or guarantee release under memory pressure? 04:49:14 milos_ [n=mikici@92.36.137.146] has joined #lisp 04:49:26 ok thanks 04:49:30 topo__: ...more clearly, then... (defun recursive-thing () (if (do-i-want-it-to-stop?) (stop-recursing) (recursive-thing))) 04:49:45 :O 04:50:17 ok i understand 04:50:30 :) 04:50:41 topo__: someone suggested Gentle Introduction to you earlier 04:50:53 I have to say that that is a fine text, and you would benefit greatly from reading it. 04:51:05 gentle? 04:51:06 topo__: it's available online for free, if purchasing it is a concern. 04:51:16 do you have the link? 04:51:28 minion: tell topo__ about gentle introduction 04:51:29 topo__: does torturing a poor bot with things beyond its comprehension please you? 04:51:37 somebody recommended "practical common lisp" 04:51:40 minion: thanks, buddy 04:51:41 you're welcome 04:51:51 topo__: I think you should wait to read PCL. Read Gentle Intro first. 04:52:12 PCL assumes you have more knowledge about certain topics, which GI will introduce you to :) 04:52:20 ok thanks 04:52:27 topo__: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/index.html 04:52:34 cook 04:52:36 cool 04:52:57 also, it's important to note: the text is quite old. Some of the examples deviate from both idiomatic, and standardized common lisp. 04:53:20 so if something doesn't work, don't be surprised. Feel free to ask here and we'll tell you what it's supposed to be like ;) 04:53:28 whats idiomatic common lisp? 04:53:29 or at least I will, I can't speak for others >_> 04:54:07 topo__: you can write a program in a programming language that simply uses the language. That's writing in the language. Writing idiomatic code is also using certain conventions that most other users of the language also use. 04:54:30 such as using (defparameter)/(defvar) for defining variables, instead of setq or setf, as the book does 04:54:41 topo__: idioms are what makes what you write understandable to others, whether it be in programming or using a natural langauge. 04:54:42 you're gonna get a lot of warnings from, say, sbcl about that stuff. 04:55:15 i see 04:55:53 is it wrong to use setf for defining variables? 04:55:57 yes 04:56:12 i always use setf 04:56:15 why is wrong? 04:56:50 I'm afraid to answer that wrong if I try... 04:56:53 >_> 04:56:58 beach: help? 04:57:37 : | 04:58:02 I mean, the general idea is that you don't want to setf variables that don't exist 04:58:39 so you want to make them exist first, and explicitly declare what they are (defvar/defparameter define dynamic variables, (let ..) defines lexical variables, and such) 04:58:46 topo__: short version, it's not defined what it does. 04:59:07 -!- creddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:59:12 -!- creddy_ is now known as creddy 05:00:05 trying to help topo is a waste of time. logs from last year: http://ircbrowse.com/channel/lisp/20071025 05:00:05 topo__: anyways. gi, good book. read pcl afterwards and you'll be good :) 05:00:08 I'm off o/ 05:00:32 ok thanks for the advice 05:00:37 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0084.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:00:51 topo__: are you trolling? >:( 05:01:03 no 05:01:12 ok :) 05:01:36 im gonna read, thanks for the advices 05:01:37 bye 05:01:54 buenas noches, y buena suerte 05:02:02 gracias 05:02:12 si necesitas mas ayuda, pregunta, pero trata de contestarlas por tu cuenta primero :) 05:02:24 bye now o/ 05:02:26 jeje ok hablas espanol? 05:02:52 bye 05:05:32 sykopomp: recently, the advice has been to forget about setq and use setf everywhere. 05:05:33 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 05:06:11 -!- tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:07:42 tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has joined #lisp 05:09:10 -!- envi^office [n=envi@203.109.25.100] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:14:00 i have been trying to learn lisp for sometime now, but what i lack is practice. can someone kindly direct me to some list of programs that i can try to solve? 05:14:35 how about http://www.ic.unicamp.br/~meidanis/courses/mc336/2006s2/funcional/L-99_Ninety-Nine_Lisp_Problems.html 05:14:48 ok 05:15:25 joga: awesome, thanks a lot :) 05:18:03 envi^office [i=envi@203.109.25.100] has joined #lisp 05:19:02 seelenquell_ [n=seelenqu@pD9E47359.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:22:11 mooglenorph [n=marco@173.9.7.10] has joined #lisp 05:32:59 -!- seelenquell__ [n=seelenqu@pD9E44447.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:33:37 cky_ [n=cky@203-211-92-114.ue.woosh.co.nz] has joined #lisp 05:33:49 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:36:43 pchrist_ [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 05:39:24 -!- pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:40:46 -!- rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-38-179.lns2.cbr1.internode.on.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 05:46:24 binarycodes: you can also simply do some projecteuler exercises 05:48:12 -!- cky [n=cky@202-74-219-83.ue.woosh.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:49:26 -!- wasabi_ [n=wasabi@p4132-ipbfp04kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has quit ["Leaving..."] 05:54:55 Erez [n=a@89-138-222-16.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 05:55:39 Hi, sorry to trouble you, but I'd appereciate your help. I've heard many good things about lisp, 05:55:39 and decided to learn it. But every tutorial I see tries to teach me how to do stuff every calculator can do. Can you please recommend a tutorial or a book that focuses on the benefits and uniqueness of lisp, something that addresses new concepts rather than new syntax, something that fits an experienced programmer? 05:55:54 -!- cky_ is now known as cky 05:56:33 minion: tell Erez about pcl-book 05:56:33 Erez: direct your attention towards pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 05:57:09 Erez: I'm a bit biased, but the whole point of the book is exactly what you asked for. 05:58:50 i've only looked briefly at it (when googling for one), but it doesn't seem to be exactly it 05:59:05 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-161-25.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:59:25 it seems to spend too much time explaining how to concat lists and add numbers 06:00:04 I want something a bit more, how to say, propaganda-ish 06:01:57 ivanst_ [i=ivans@93-136-50-111.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 06:02:12 -!- ivansto [i=ivans@93-138-0-14.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:02:35 i will give it another chance, tho, i guess 06:05:07 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@EM119-72-30-179.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 06:05:30 Can I use clsql:probe-database without connecting to the db with a empty db name? The only way I found to use the function so far is this. (with-database (db '(host "" user pass)) (probe-database '(host name user pass))) 06:07:30 wasabi_ [n=wasabi@p4132-ipbfp04kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 06:13:49 -!- x6j8x [n=x6j8x@77.21.43.186] has quit [] 06:14:31 dsteuber [n=david@c-69-142-99-107.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:15:32 sykopomp: projecteuler exercises are too mathematical for comfort :P 06:16:33 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:19:59 Has anyone developed a Lisp system targeted fro the ARM? 06:20:07 [1]Maghnus [n=Maghnus@68-190-147-184.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 06:20:10 for 06:21:19 My first iPhone app is on the iTunes store now. I', npt the biggest fan of Objective-C. 06:21:51 hmmm 06:21:53 Sorry. I'm not the biggest fan of Objective -C. 06:22:07 dsteuber: there was talk of porting sbcl to the ARM, that reminds me 06:22:27 It has to be small. 06:22:40 I'm still not clear on what the RAM is. 06:22:45 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-67-124-36-5.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:22:47 there's ABCL 06:23:02 I'll look that up. 06:23:06 can the iphone run the JVM? 06:23:12 Xcode does have good docs though. 06:23:31 dsteuber: We talk about porting ccl to the ARM at Clozure a lot. We'd like to do it, but we couldn't self-fund the port. 06:23:32 Java is not on the iPhone so far as I know. 06:24:00 dsteuber which one is your app 06:24:09 http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=292419004&mt=8 06:24:37 That link tries to open iTunes in Safari. 06:24:46 aaaargh!! 06:24:55 hate. -hate- 06:25:03 -!- Maghnus [n=Maghnus@68-190-147-184.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 06:25:03 -!- [1]Maghnus is now known as Maghnus 06:25:08 It is a dirt simple app for the purpose of learning how to get an app submitted and approved. 06:25:26 It is not anything like the app I'm working on now. 06:25:32 ah yes, the good ole magic 2-ball 06:25:37 is the price you sell at fixed 06:25:51 I can change it. 06:25:52 i'll give you $0.19 for it! 06:25:55 I think. 06:26:06 It isn't worth one cent. 06:26:24 19, maybe 06:26:45 I don't plan on doing free apps for Apple. 06:27:05 I would consider CLISP, but it is GPL. 06:27:17 *sykopomp* would rather not write -anything- for apple. 06:28:04 Considering the time I waited for approval, I don't blame you. 06:28:05 dsteuber: I think I have also heard issues mentioned with what apps Apple would allow on the iPhone. Wasn't there something about no interpreters/virtual machines allowed, now that I remember? 06:28:23 you may not be able to use lisp at all. 06:28:29 Yes. That is in the TOS. 06:28:46 then you can't use lisp, correct?.... 06:29:09 milanj [n=milan@79.101.204.194] has joined #lisp 06:29:12 And yet Safari Mobile will do Ajax and JavaScript. 06:29:16 why would you use lisp 06:29:27 I like Lisp. 06:29:48 But I find it easier to deal with the platform language. 06:29:49 dsteuber: Safari is also an Apple(tm)(c)(your-soul)(mineminemine) application 06:30:06 That is Obj-C 2.0 and C and C++/ 06:30:14 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:31:04 What really sucks is that the iPhone 2.1 SDK is pretty good. 06:31:08 -!- hsaliak [n=hsaliak@cm89.sigma229.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:31:20 Although the OS requires more work. 06:31:28 hsaliak [n=hsaliak@cm89.sigma229.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 06:31:39 I had to reboot my iPhone 3G to make it a phone again. 06:31:56 Bzek [n=SK_sj@mcc-dyn-30-196.kosnet.ru] has joined #lisp 06:32:24 And yes, ARM supports "Trusted Computing" 06:33:11 is that that hardware drm thing? 06:33:38 I hope Android becomes a competitive platform. Even though it is Google. 06:33:43 -!- Maghnus [n=Maghnus@68-190-147-184.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:33:51 Yes. DRM in hardware. 06:33:58 But there are jailbreaks. 06:34:22 hooray for drm. Finally, my rights as the owner of 1s and 0s can be defended from these vile 'internet hackers' 06:34:52 brandelune [n=JC@pl044.nas933.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 06:34:57 It's worse than that. Apple TV supports it just as much as iTunes. 06:35:29 And iPhone OS is really locked down. 06:35:36 thank you for reminding me why I don't use any apple products. 06:35:48 oh wait. I guess CUPS is an apple product. So besides that. 06:36:02 Don't be fooled. Microsoft will follow. 06:36:07 It was their idea. 06:36:25 And Intel is playing along. 06:36:36 those are givens. 06:37:03 I just hope that Linux and *BSD will always run on a PC. 06:37:35 I hope Linux either improves or gets displaced by something better within the next decade. 06:37:58 but I'm not so worried about being able to run a free platform on -some- hardware. 06:37:59 BEOS was supposed to be pretty good. 06:38:15 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:38:29 :P 06:38:37 I suspect DRM is the future. 06:38:38 so was plan9, too 06:38:54 I don't think so, to be honest. 06:39:00 although I guess it might be, for some people. 06:39:02 On October 18th, Bush singed the PRO-IP law. 06:39:23 signed. 06:39:28 I think it's more likely that we'll be seeing vendors push more domain-specific machines (like phones and game consoles) 06:39:42 and start trying to pull consumers away from full-fledged PCs 06:39:49 Game consoles have always been farily closed. 06:40:01 But iPhone OS is very much like OS X. 06:40:10 but they have not always been the absolute preference for cutting-edge game development. 06:40:16 -!- binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.199.227] has quit ["WeeChat 0.2.6"] 06:40:29 That could change. 06:40:44 OpenGL ES + OpenAL is pretty good. 06:41:02 we'll see. One would hope. 06:41:06 and is much easier to port to full OpenGL + OpenAL 06:41:11 -!- pchrist_ [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit ["leaving"] 06:41:17 I, for one, plan to do what I can to push that back, as idealistic as that may sound. 06:41:52 pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 06:41:56 'Well those standards are at least open. 06:42:06 Not like DirectX 06:42:14 yeah, well. 06:42:24 it's good to remain optimistic 06:42:44 it's also good to remind people of what they're actually giving up when they buy apple stuff :-\ 06:42:48 An iPhone game would probably not be hard to port to a Mac. 06:42:56 Or Linux. 06:43:05 lambda-avenger [n=roman@adsl-63-197-150-112.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:43:40 yeah, linux has a ways to go before it can start being adopted more by the general populace, I'd say. 06:44:21 I've only got a beginner's view of OS X SDK. I must say that I am impressed even though it has a lot of Obj-C/ 06:44:45 I've heard good things about Obj-C when compared to C++ 06:44:58 not that I know anything about the matter, since I don't know either of the languages. 06:45:01 Well they are different. 06:45:30 Obj-C is too much like Smaltalk IMO. 06:45:40 what's wrong with smalltalk? :P 06:45:51 It isn't CLOS. 06:45:57 good point 06:46:02 but nothing is CLOS except CLOS 06:46:04 :( 06:46:13 which... can really spoil you. 06:46:21 CLOS wins so far over what I have seen. 06:46:23 Is there a way to expand back-quote and comma template like this? http://paste.lisp.org/display/69492 06:47:54 Maghnus [n=Maghnus@68-190-147-184.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 06:47:58 Since C is like assembler these days, I suppose it is not too hard to do a CLOS runtime in C. 06:49:13 BTW, if you don't hate the Obj-C 2.0 too much, the iPhone is fun to develope for. 06:49:32 With all Apple's faults, the SDK is well documented. 06:50:40 Those hand held devices have all the computing power of desktops from 1998. 06:51:47 Too bad they don't use ANSI Common Lisp. 06:51:56 They would rule all if they did. 06:53:29 Maybe the iPhone would actually work as a phone. 06:55:32 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 06:57:03 -!- milanj [n=milan@79.101.204.194] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 06:57:47 -!- ``Erik [i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:00:06 BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-174.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:02:12 x6j8x [n=x6j8x@tmo-100-65.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #lisp 07:02:58 -!- dsteuber [n=david@c-69-142-99-107.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Going AFK. TTYL, BBFN."] 07:05:18 epoch [n=K-I-S-S@adsl-69-208-71-189.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 07:05:37 mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@dm.sonopia.com] has joined #lisp 07:06:53 -!- epoch is now known as mask|epoch|mask 07:12:09 jmbr [n=jmbr@87.223.196.118] has joined #lisp 07:12:17 Is it possible to use one initialize-instance :after for multiple classes? 07:13:42 if they share a parent class 07:13:53 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 07:14:17 Ah, they do 07:18:28 What's new? 07:20:24 *Draggor* is working on his tourney bracket program 07:20:42 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@EM119-72-30-179.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:20:50 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 07:22:01 edon [n=edon@82.114.94.5] has joined #lisp 07:29:51 NoorDextor [n=NoorDext@unaffiliated/noordextor] has joined #lisp 07:30:19 -!- milos_ [n=mikici@92.36.137.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:38:41 zbigniew_ [n=zb@3e8.org] has joined #lisp 07:39:25 ths_ [n=ths@p549AF97F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:42:54 -!- ths [n=ths@X7c88.x.pppool.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:48:00 -!- Erez [n=a@89-138-222-16.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [] 07:49:49 -!- xjrn [n=jim@c-69-181-213-99.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:50:43 luhar [i=3ba24401@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-39fa3756620fb127] has joined #lisp 07:51:02 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.248.11] has joined #lisp 07:51:31 -!- zbigniew [n=zb@3e8.org] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:51:37 me-so-stupid [n=semka@77.236.84.166] has joined #lisp 07:55:46 -!- mask|epoch|mask [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has quit ["  "] 08:00:10 good morning 08:00:22 -!- ths_ is now known as ths 08:01:29 -!- Maghnus [n=Maghnus@68-190-147-184.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 08:01:41 [1]Maghnus [n=Maghnus@68-190-147-184.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 08:02:19 -!- [1]Maghnus is now known as Maghnus 08:06:33 -!- Maghnus [n=Maghnus@68-190-147-184.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:07:01 Maghnus [n=Maghnus@68-190-147-184.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 08:08:35 reaver__ [n=reaver@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 08:08:54 mulligan [n=user@e178058076.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:08:54 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 08:13:07 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.104] has joined #lisp 08:16:40 -!- me-so-stupid [n=semka@77.236.84.166] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:17:00 me-so-stupid [n=semka@77.236.84.166] has joined #lisp 08:17:19 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-133-170-239.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 08:23:30 -!- lambda-avenger [n=roman@adsl-63-197-150-112.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 08:23:51 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-104-127-61.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 08:26:07 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 08:26:14 aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:30:32 lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-15-172.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:33:51 segv__ [n=mb@p4FC1EE78.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:34:35 -!- segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1EE78.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:37:30 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:39:41 rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:40:17 netfrog [n=gaim@line106-24.adsl.actcom.co.il] has joined #lisp 08:40:25 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 08:41:42 -!- yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:41:47 impulse32 [n=impulse@CPE001195396746-CM001ac3167610.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 08:42:19 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.248.11] has quit [] 08:42:24 -!- netfrog [n=gaim@line106-24.adsl.actcom.co.il] has left #lisp 08:43:30 trebor_win [n=none_ask@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 08:43:59 -!- me-so-stupid [n=semka@77.236.84.166] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:44:09 -!- mulligan [n=user@e178058076.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:44:18 mulligan [n=user@e178058076.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:44:37 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.193.149] has joined #lisp 08:44:50 tst___ [n=Tim@p4FD2BC95.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:45:47 xjrn [n=jim@c-69-181-213-99.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:48:13 -!- xinming [n=hyy@218.73.135.227] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:48:44 xinming [n=hyy@218.73.135.227] has joined #lisp 08:50:49 trebor-win pasted "disassembling a function - something wrong?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/69497 08:51:10 hello. 08:52:31 i would like to see if some code of a functioon gets deleted by optimization, but the output of disassemble doesn't give me a glue. can somebody give me a hint how to check this? 08:53:38 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 08:55:29 splittist [n=splittis@213.235.9.122] has joined #lisp 08:55:34 morning 08:57:29 -!- rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:57:41 rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:57:42 -!- vixey [n=witch@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:57:43 eevar2 [n=jalla@106.80-203-27.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 08:59:12 morning splittist, if you may have a moment for me - maybe you can enlight me? http://paste.lisp.org/display/69497 08:59:53 i would like to see if parts of the code get deleted by optimization. 09:00:12 pok_ [i=pok@tarrant.klingenberg.no] has joined #lisp 09:00:12 -!- pok [i=pok@tarrant.klingenberg.no] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:00:49 but i somehow do not see anything in output of disassemble. 09:02:32 trebor_win: I suspect you are asking the wrong person. But why are you trying to disassemble at the TIME level? 09:04:12 splittist: oh, you mean the macro makes it that its body is hidden (for me) in disassemble? 09:05:05 trebor_win: I'm not sure. But if you're really tring to see what happens to perco:: functions, my thinking is that you would be better off disassembling them. 09:05:37 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:06:01 epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has joined #lisp 09:06:51 benny [n=benny@i577A0DC7.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 09:08:23 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@61.121.210.70] has quit ["Instain to the do way"] 09:10:09 splittist: removing (time ...) did it, thanks. 09:10:16 jao [n=user@186.Red-81-32-186.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:10:34 trebor_win: a pleasure (: 09:15:32 -!- sunwukong [n=salvi@ortros.den.rcast.u-tokyo.ac.jp] has quit ["bye"] 09:16:28 -!- impulse32 [n=impulse@CPE001195396746-CM001ac3167610.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["leaving"] 09:16:31 -!- spiderbyte [n=dcl@unaffiliated/dcl] has quit ["WeeChat 0.2.6"] 09:19:27 Does lispworks have any way of knowing it's process-id (pid) on unix? 09:20:49 knobo: yesterday somebody mentiond some posix functionality - maybe you get a result apropos-ing for it. 09:20:51 knobo, maybe (apropos 'pid) will give some results 09:24:17 pok [i=pok@tarrant.klingenberg.no] has joined #lisp 09:24:24 -!- pok_ [i=pok@tarrant.klingenberg.no] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:24:28 -!- johs [n=johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:24:28 johs_ [n=johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has joined #lisp 09:25:55 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-171-245.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:25:58 dash__ [n=dash@dslb-084-057-026-156.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:27:48 sys::pid exists, but it is unbound 09:29:15 I found it. 09:29:18 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.193.149] has quit [] 09:29:50 (system::getpid) 09:31:44 sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has joined #lisp 09:33:06 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 09:33:56 -!- fph [i=joe@adsl-75-14-202-212.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 09:34:07 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:34:10 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.248.11] has joined #lisp 09:35:46 -!- johs_ [n=johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:35:53 johs [n=johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has joined #lisp 09:36:17 lucka_ [n=mornfall@ip-89-102-33-70.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 09:38:28 -!- dash_ [n=dash@dslb-088-065-131-107.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:39:50 -!- mooglenorph [n=marco@173.9.7.10] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:41:28 -!- lucka_ [n=mornfall@ip-89-102-33-70.karneval.cz] has quit [Client Quit] 09:41:44 ZabaQ [n=ZabaQ@194-105-174-193.ifb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:41:59 lucka_ [n=mornfall@ip-89-102-33-70.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 09:43:22 I think I have been banned from common-lisp.net : every time I try to connect from home I get HTTP: Connection Refused. 09:43:28 Who do I contact about this? 09:44:55 -!- photon2 is now known as photon_ 09:45:22 -!- photon_ is now known as photon__ 09:45:43 -!- photon__ is now known as photon 09:46:24 -!- photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has left #lisp 09:46:40 ZabaQ: look at the topic 09:47:04 Ah! 09:47:07 D'oh! 09:52:20 photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has joined #lisp 10:04:22 mega1 [n=mega@pool-0471d.externet.hu] has joined #lisp 10:05:55 -!- photon is now known as phot0n 10:06:20 -!- phot0n is now known as ph0ton 10:06:25 -!- ph0ton is now known as ph0t0n 10:07:04 chris2 [n=chris@ppp-88-217-91-148.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 10:07:14 -!- ph0t0n is now known as photon 10:07:58 -!- lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-15-172.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 10:16:16 -!- epoch is now known as Batepoch 10:16:35 -!- sudoer [n=jtoy@58.61.220.143] has quit [] 10:17:00 gigamonkey: I am now, but you've probably gone 10:18:50 -!- Batepoch is now known as creepoch 10:21:23 c|mell [n=cmell@v113243.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 10:23:47 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483DAED.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:24:44 -!- lnostdal [n=lnostdal@149-36-67.oke2-bras5.adsl.tele2.no] has quit ["reboot .. brb."] 10:25:15 is there a package for creating command-line interfaces? 10:25:57 what do you mean by it? curses? 10:26:02 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@EM119-72-39-24.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:26:41 Is there a function like this? http://paste.lisp.org/display/69501 10:27:06 lnostdal [n=lnostdal@149-36-67.oke2-bras5.adsl.tele2.no] has joined #lisp 10:29:31 tomoyuki28jp: (remove-if (constantly t) '(0 1 3 4 5) :start 2 :end 2) ? 10:30:02 stassats`: no, not curses, just a package for creating CLIs for things 10:30:46 locklace: aren't format, write-line, read-line, etc. sufficient? 10:30:50 something along the lines of http://docs.python.org/library/cmd.html 10:31:19 stassats`: Yes, remove-if with constantly options is the one. Thanks! 10:31:53 obviously yes, if you feel like writing all the boilerplate every time 10:33:39 locklace: I haven't seen anything like that. 10:33:59 ok, thanks 10:36:27 i guess that stands to reason, since the lisp view is "what, you mean the REPL?" :) 10:37:35 nah, probably more like "the ten people who actually write and share lisp libraries didn't get to it yet" 10:38:03 hehe 10:38:12 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 10:39:09 locklace: you have an opportunity to write such package 10:42:17 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 10:42:50 -!- mulligan [n=user@e178058076.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:44:41 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 10:44:51 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@EM119-72-39-24.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:46:33 i have the opportunity to climb mount everest and cross the sahara in nothing but bunny slippers and a hair shirt too 10:46:35 -!- luhar [i=3ba24401@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-39fa3756620fb127] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 10:47:00 if that's how you feel about writing things you need, lisp might not be the language for you. 10:50:57 -!- _8david [n=user@port-83-236-3-70.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:51:11 that wasn't a comment on writing things in lisp ;) 10:51:32 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-171-245.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Connection timed out] 10:53:15 can emacs call or "do/send stuff" to the *inferior-lisp* buffer? .. i'm thinking of assigning a shortcut key that calls a method and supplies it with a special global or something 10:55:50 hm, say .. F12 sends code like; (sw::reload *viewport*) to *inferior-lisp*, which triggers a "window.location.reload()" on the currently (or last) active browser window/tab in S.W. 10:56:06 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-171-245.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:57:09 davazp [n=user@77.Red-83-54-164.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:01:12 cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has joined #lisp 11:03:36 lnostdal: maybe it's better to do (slime-eval '(sw::reload *viewport*)) ? 11:03:44 -!- kidd2 [n=kidd@193.152.210.172] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:03:48 -!- kidd [n=kidd@193.152.210.172] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 11:04:13 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:04:24 whatever does the trick, stassats` .. :) i did take a peek at http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/Lisp-Evaluation.html , but no clues there 11:06:06 bohanlon` [n=bohanlon@128.237.157.100] has joined #lisp 11:06:21 i can't find a slime-eval function .. (slime fresh from cvs just now) 11:07:20 -!- bohanlon [n=bohanlon@TUBERIUM.CLUB.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:07:21 it's defined at 2259th line in slime.el 11:07:53 kidd2 [n=kidd@167.Red-79-147-12.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:08:19 indeed it is .. ok 11:09:57 "eval expr on the superior Lisp" .. i think that means on the emacs/elisp side 11:10:13 no 11:10:59 (slime-eval '(cl:print 10)) works for me 11:12:13 oh -- yeah, it does .. heh .. thanks :) 11:13:07 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:15:13 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 11:15:53 mikezor_ [n=mikael@c-a388e253.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 11:16:33 -!- mikezor [n=mikael@c-a388e253.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:16:47 jtoy [n=jtoy@58.63.171.97] has joined #lisp 11:20:05 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.3.254.31] has joined #lisp 11:20:50 lispm [n=joswig@e177150201.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:23:02 Krystof [i=csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:25:13 lichtblau [n=user@port-83-236-3-70.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 11:26:18 H4ns [n=Hans@p57BB8E32.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:30:00 -!- myrkraverk` [n=johann@157-157-188-30.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:30:28 ManateeLazyCat [n=Andy@222.212.133.218] has joined #lisp 11:32:56 -!- ths [n=ths@p549AF97F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:36:17 -!- wasabi_ [n=wasabi@p4132-ipbfp04kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has quit ["Leaving..."] 11:40:33 danwhite [n=danwhite@118.107.62.52] has joined #lisp 11:41:13 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 11:42:14 disumu [n=disumu@p57A24F01.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:42:57 -!- huangjs [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:43:50 -!- johs [n=johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:44:26 -!- pok [i=pok@tarrant.klingenberg.no] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:45:07 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 11:46:45 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 11:48:51 pok [i=pok@tarrant.klingenberg.no] has joined #lisp 11:49:14 johs [n=johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has joined #lisp 11:50:47 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=Andy@222.212.133.218] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:51:30 ManateeLazyCat [n=Andy@222.212.133.218] has joined #lisp 11:52:21 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=Andy@222.212.133.218] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:58:38 reaver___ [n=reaver@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 11:59:43 Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 12:00:04 ManateeLazyCat [n=Andy@222.212.133.218] has joined #lisp 12:02:00 bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdslv199.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 12:03:18 -!- bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdslv199.osnanet.de] has left #lisp 12:03:48 -!- cky [n=cky@203-211-92-114.ue.woosh.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:04:45 -!- reaver___ [n=reaver@212.88.117.162] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:05:09 reaver___ [n=reaver@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 12:12:38 -!- chris2 [n=chris@ppp-88-217-91-148.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:14:37 H4ns1 [n=Hans@p57BB9AB4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:14:51 -!- H4ns [n=Hans@p57BB8E32.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 12:14:53 -!- H4ns1 is now known as H4ns 12:18:14 ivan4th [n=ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has joined #lisp 12:21:49 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@212.88.117.162] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:23:44 -!- tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:25:13 nurv101` [n=askmefor@bl10-158-83.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 12:26:01 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 12:27:00 -!- haiwei [n=haiwei@192.9.202.3] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:27:08 am I allowed to break the silence? 12:27:45 You can. 12:28:46 I can report that we had 10 people at the last Lisp meeting in Hamburg , this time at the Fachhochschule in Wedel 12:28:49 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.104] has quit ["bbl"] 12:28:55 Gilbert Baumann was there, too! 12:29:08 I don't know of him. Famous? 12:29:27 -!- nurv101 [n=askmefor@cidhcp124.ist.utl.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:29:32 he wrote a full web browser in Common Lisp 12:29:37 for example 12:29:44 -!- nurv101` is now known as nurv 12:29:50 I gave a CLIM 'presentation' 12:30:02 Closer, or what it's called? 12:30:03 for those interested slides are here: 12:30:04 http://lispm.dyndns.org/presentation/mcclim-20081029/ 12:30:10 Oh, nice! 12:30:18 the web browser is called 'closure' 12:30:31 -!- nurv is now known as nurv101 12:32:03 Closure, right. I was going to say Clo[szj]ure, because I couldn't remember which one it was. =) 12:32:11 closure uses clim right? 12:32:23 yes, mcclim 12:33:09 lnxz [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp169.studby.uio.no] has joined #lisp 12:33:21 *locklace* considers creating a cliki disambiguation page for lisp projects with names that are or sound like "closure" 12:33:41 lispm, do McCLIM and CLIM differ in spec? 12:33:43 lispm: I see in that presentation that you found only clim-clx to be usable. 12:33:44 Which aspects of clim-gtkairo did you find most lacking? 12:33:57 -!- lnxz [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp169.studby.uio.no] has quit [Client Quit] 12:34:29 I'm waiting for a Lisp project named 'clochard' 12:35:10 lichtblau, I guess that's my lack of experience with clim-gtkairo 12:35:25 is it usable? How do I use it? 12:35:50 tic: McCLIM is a 'free' implementation of the CLIM spec 12:36:13 lichtblau, what do I need to get clim-gtkairo running? 12:36:25 lispm, OK. 12:36:50 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:40:18 I see some instructions for clim-gtkairo on the McCLIM wiki 12:40:27 I have to try that at some later time... 12:41:44 For restarts, is there some way to "cancel" them before they are invoked? 12:41:58 I also wanted to compiler McCLIM with CMUCL on my Mac, but ran into one or two compiler errors (seem to be errors in CMUCL) 12:42:15 i.e. de-register them from COMPUTE-RESTARTS? 12:42:17 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-171-245.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Connection timed out] 12:42:28 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 12:43:34 lispm: gtkairo certainly has many bugs (as well as mere incompatibilities). I was just curious whether you had perhaps come across specific bugs that you found particularly annoying. 12:44:01 lichtblau, I should check that out 12:44:19 I also want to try the current 'beagle' backend 12:44:34 chandler: the locative trick was interesting, is there a good tutorial or source of information on using the more esoteric CL tools to create new language features like that? 12:45:18 minion: tell locklace about On Lisp 12:45:18 locklace: have a look at On Lisp: by Paul Graham An advanced textbook on Common Lisp, with special focus on macros. http://www.cliki.net/On%20Lisp 12:46:18 ok, guess it's time to re-read that ;) 12:47:14 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.3.254.31] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:47:41 strange idea: CLIM does not provide a window system, it provides a gui interface for Common Lisp - but it uses the underlying window system of the platform 12:48:03 idea: 1a) implement a window system with McCLIM 12:48:29 idea: 1b) implement a (X11) window manager with McCLIM 12:49:19 climwm 12:49:30 clim wim 12:49:30 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for wim. 12:49:38 be silent! 12:50:02 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-171-245.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:50:19 *Xach* fondly remembers lispm-wim2 12:51:12 that was actually using a Lisp wm 12:51:16 stumpwm! 12:51:27 stumpwm in clim 12:51:50 with the CLIM listener as the wm command line 12:53:38 -!- vcgomes[away] is now known as vcgomes 12:53:53 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 12:54:10 doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has joined #lisp 12:54:13 what would stumpwm in clim give you? 12:56:54 the CLIM based user interface with clickable presentations, the clim command line, etc. 12:58:04 yeah, but StumpWM's beauty is that its out of your way. only draws minimal frames around windows. 12:58:08 (or none at all) 12:59:09 well, I would opt for a window manager with similar capabilities, but with a different user interface 12:59:26 tic: haha, that's obviously for a value of "beauty" that sounds very CLIM-compatible 12:59:27 stumpwm is largely keyboard driven. :) 12:59:38 lichtblau, :) 13:00:13 if you look at DW, the inspiration for clim, it is very barebones, too 13:00:15 I mean that you don't really _see_ much of it at all. you have a prompt, ok, but that's really trivial. Not to say I wouldn't like it, I just fail to see the point. 13:00:24 full screen windows with minimal borders, etc. 13:00:31 lispm: i love quips like "Dynamic Windows is a great improvement over its successors." 13:00:40 largely keyboard driven 13:00:43 bleh for full screen :/ 13:01:10 deximer [n=deximer@168.203.117.66] has joined #lisp 13:01:14 and I remember being able to split the screen into frames on Genera. 13:01:25 Xach, unfortunately there is some truth to it 13:01:25 My only complaint about the tiling window managers (including stumpwm) is the lack of decent notification mechanisms 13:01:43 dlowe, define notification 13:02:49 tic: if I get an IM, or someone says my name on IRC, or I get an email, I want some sort of blip. If I'm running in full-screen mode, I always have this nagging suspicion that I'm missing something 13:03:30 dlowe, full-screen? you said tiling! :) no problems there. moreover, stumpwm has hooks for that stuff. 13:03:54 (besides, I run gnome-panel together with stumpwm, so I get notifications through that) 13:04:04 any netwm-capable wm has hooks for notification. 13:04:06 that's why the Lispm window system had a line at the bottom reserved for these kinds of things (progress bars, ...) 13:04:12 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 13:04:32 on 640x480, sure, fullscreen. 1920x1200? notasmuch. 13:04:33 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 13:04:40 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has left #lisp 13:04:43 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 13:05:11 tic: my screen is not so large that I can tile everything, but having overlapping windows is a cheap notification that doesn't requiring me setting some invisible property 13:05:47 There is no function like booleanp? This is enough? (defun booleanp (x) (when (member x '(t nil)) t)) 13:06:01 tomoyuki28jp: usually you don't actually care 13:06:11 ``Erik [n=erik@ftp.brlcad.org] has joined #lisp 13:06:26 tomoyuki28jp: (typep x 'boolean) is another way 13:06:45 Xach: oh, that way looks nicer. thanks 13:06:45 but i also can't ever remember caring 13:07:11 tomoyuki28jp: there's no strict boolean type in cl, only generalized booleans 13:07:15 -!- doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:07:31 attila_lendvai: except the type named BOOLEAN 13:07:35 doxtor [n=doxtor@cpe-92-37-27-247.dynamic.amis.net] has joined #lisp 13:08:24 except that you have no chance to represent a boolean false value that is not type of list 13:08:38 attila_lendvai: dlowe: uhm, I see. I understand what you mean. I think I can just treat a var as t if it is non-nil. thanks. 13:09:20 tomoyuki28jp: sometimes it's desirable to do a (not (null foo)) to 'convert' the generalized boolean to T 13:09:28 josemanuel [n=josemanu@55.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 13:09:46 -!- reaver___ [n=reaver@212.88.117.162] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:10:08 -!- disumu [n=disumu@p57A24F01.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["..."] 13:10:10 dlowe, alright. I like tiling windows, ymmv ;) 13:10:29 tic: I can see the appeal 13:10:48 attila_lendvai: interesting. How do you convert this? (not (null foo)) 13:11:09 tayssir [n=user@streamtech.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 13:11:21 dlowe, navigation (keyboard, quick) and organization (into the current frame) 13:11:27 less mousing. 13:11:31 tomoyuki28jp: when foo is a random value other than NIL and you don't want to return the value only the non-nil-ness, then you do (not (null foo)) 13:13:08 attila_lendvai: I see. Interesting. thanks! 13:17:25 -!- vcgomes is now known as vcgomes[away] 13:17:50 Quote: 'More and more programmers have at their disposal a bit-mapped screen, state-of-the-art pointing device, and perhaps even a full window system.' 13:18:14 *Xach* fits that profile, except for his pointing device 13:18:16 Quote by Kent Pitman, 'Interactions in Lisp' 13:18:29 <``Erik> man, and I'm stuck here on a wyse terminal :( 13:19:11 another quote from that paper: 13:19:49 'Many users are surprised to find how ill-defined the CLtL file system interface really is.' 13:20:48 -!- vcgomes[away] is now known as vcgomes 13:20:58 haha 13:21:07 now that _is_ funny 13:21:12 bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdslv199.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:21:15 Piranha__ [i=jabber-i@number-41.thoughtcrime.us] has joined #lisp 13:22:21 -!- bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdslv199.osnanet.de] has left #lisp 13:25:16 -!- prxq_ [n=mommer@Zef02.z.pppool.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:25:41 birdsbite [n=user@75.110.164.248] has joined #lisp 13:26:43 geekux [n=geekux@217.5.184.10] has joined #lisp 13:27:41 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-199.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:28:28 lispm: how was the meeting? 13:28:37 (and good afternoon everyone) 13:28:39 -!- doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:29:55 it was quite good 13:30:07 Gilbert was there and he seemed to enjoy it 13:30:17 Great! 13:30:38 lispm: did your presentations go well? 13:30:43 we had Michael Wessel there, another expert on CLIM 13:31:13 yes, the presentation was time - I had a loooooooong time slot 13:31:13 http://lispm.dyndns.org/presentation/mcclim-20081029/ 13:31:15 hello 13:31:20 the presentation is there 13:31:34 minus the Lisp Machine video ;-) 13:31:34 where can i get the common lisp hyperspect in pdf for free? 13:31:49 lispm: Oh, good! I'll definitely read it. 13:32:08 g'day beach. 13:32:14 I've explained a short demonstration program 13:32:22 topo__, the cl quickre? 13:32:24 so they were exposed to CLIM code 13:32:37 Gilbert also reported of his inhouse use of McCLIM 13:32:42 that was interesting 13:32:47 topo__, see http://clqr.berlios.de 13:33:05 the common lisp hyperspect 13:33:05 ok thanks 13:33:20 topo__: the word is "hyperspec" 13:33:21 lispm: It sounds like I should have come myself! 13:33:38 which is the difference between the hyperspec and the quick reference? 13:33:39 beach: yep! 13:33:44 appletizer [i=user@82-46-30-39.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:33:51 sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:33:51 topo__, it's a quick reference! :) doesn't contain all. 13:34:03 ok thanks 13:34:08 topo__, you can download the hyperspec locally. `apt-get install hyperspec` on debian. 13:34:21 I would also like to recruit Gilbert for some later session to give a CLIM 'presentation' about Closure... 13:34:24 :-) 13:34:25 tic? does it download in pdf? 13:34:38 topo__, it does not. it is a set of HTML files. The quickref is a printable PDF. 13:34:52 -!- segv__ [n=mb@p4FC1EE78.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:34:54 i have the hyperspect in html 13:34:57 topo__, the hyperspec debian package installs to /usr/share/doc/hyperspec 13:35:03 but how can i look for a specific word? 13:35:04 topo__, there is no hyperspec in PDF. 13:35:07 topo__, grep 13:35:09 there isnt a search engine 13:35:20 topo__, or use l1sp.org/cl/foo to search for foo 13:35:22 segv__ [n=mb@p4FC1D7D2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:25 topo__, there's a symbol index. 13:35:29 (even a permutated!) 13:35:33 Beach: Kilian Sprotte from Berlin was there - he hacks on PWGL, a compostion tool written in Common Lisp with a cool GUI 13:35:33 that's not quite a search, it's more of a lookup 13:35:40 hmm 13:35:42 i should add a search, though! 13:35:45 ummm 13:36:03 topo__: for search, try lispdoc.com 13:36:04 beach: he seemed to see the potention for CLIM, though PWGL uses CAPI 13:36:13 lispm: i thought pwgl looked pretty interesting 13:36:21 lispm: The meeting must have lasted quite a while. 13:36:24 for example if i want to find the reference of compile in the hyperspec 13:36:33 which is the best way and fast way to do it? 13:36:35 Xach, you should! and fuzzydoc. 13:36:43 my presentation was like two hours maybe ;-) 13:36:45 topo__, master index. 13:36:46 topo__: visit http://l1sp.org/cl/compile 13:37:00 ok thanks 13:37:19 beach: Michael Wessel was interested in McCLIM after he heard that it supports some tabbed layout ;-) 13:38:26 beach: it was also good to have Gilbert there - I could direct some questions from the audience to him :-) 13:38:47 lispm: Yes, he knows quite a lot of stuff, especially about McCLIM. 13:39:15 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 13:39:47 that was good support for me ;-) 13:40:35 mmm... tabbed layout.. 13:40:37 *schme_* drools. 13:43:12 *tic* hands schme_ a napkin 13:45:21 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 13:46:21 good afternoon 13:47:09 reaver__ [n=reaver@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 13:47:23 ryepup [n=ryepup@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:18 -!- edon [n=edon@albalug/edon] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:48:22 ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 13:48:43 -!- froog_ is now known as froog 13:50:48 morning nikodemus. I haven't had time to track this down yet, but the sbcl-alien changes from a few weeks ago (?) seem to have broken my ffi packages. 13:50:49 envi^laptop [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 13:50:58 -!- envi^laptop [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:51:03 -!- creepoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has quit ["  "] 13:52:31 mtest [n=mtest@60-56-83-49.eonet.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:52:54 -!- mtest [n=mtest@60-56-83-49.eonet.ne.jp] has left #lisp 13:53:27 the gabor's backtrace robustification thing? 13:53:32 elurin [n=user@81.213.203.109] has joined #lisp 13:55:02 -!- xjrn [n=jim@c-69-181-213-99.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 13:55:38 I was thinking it was the redefining alien types thing 13:56:37 oh, ok 13:57:00 if you can reduce a test-case, i can look at it 13:59:01 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.3.254.31] has joined #lisp 13:59:13 ok. perhaps it was some sort of transient failure. I'll keep an eye out for it. 13:59:32 haiwei [n=haiwei@61.149.75.2] has joined #lisp 14:01:44 it could be that you have multiple "complete" definitions for an alien type. previously the first one seen stuck around, but now they get redefined 14:01:53 you should get a warning, though 14:01:55 http://www.lapetiteclaudine.com/archives/001922.html 14:02:33 nikodemus: ah, that sounds possible, of course either I can't remember where I saw it or it's working now :) 14:04:47 slyrus_: i'm hoping to have look at some long-standing darwin issues in a couple of weeks. are you about as busy as usual around that time? meaning: should i try to ask things on irc, or collect things to an email? 14:05:13 howdy 14:05:33 -!- matthew` [n=user@CPE-124-178-235-43.static.vic.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:06:11 nikodemus: depends on the time of day/day of the week. I'm busy, but I'm happy to help (in the areas where my brain/programming skills haven't atrophied too much to be useless) 14:06:28 matthew` [n=user@CPE-124-178-235-43.static.vic.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 14:07:12 -!- knobo [n=bohmersp@148.122.202.168] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:07:26 lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 14:08:15 neurogeek_ [n=neurogee@201.208.73.206] has joined #lisp 14:09:54 epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has joined #lisp 14:10:18 edon [n=edon@82.114.94.0] has joined #lisp 14:10:37 -!- epoch is now known as creepoch 14:13:56 -!- kuwabara [n=Kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:14:42 kuwabara [n=Kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.eu] has joined #lisp 14:15:35 chandler: thanks for blogging about 1.0.22 14:16:31 nikodemus` [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 14:17:30 mye [n=mye@dslc-082-082-087-242.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:51 CL build problem for cffi shown at http://paste.lisp.org/display/69511 14:21:16 -!- nurv101 [n=askmefor@bl10-158-83.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:21:47 i don't think the actual problem is visible in that paste 14:22:10 What else might help? 14:22:31 i'm not sure...looks like something is suppressing output 14:22:52 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-254-225.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 14:22:52 mulligan [n=user@e178040027.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:23:30 tic: as a primitive start: http://l1sp.org/search?q=compile 14:24:41 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:26:27 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has left #lisp 14:27:06 xach: What other output would you expect to see? Trying with --verbose, but it doesn't like it. 14:27:48 wgl: something describing the simple-error 14:28:00 how does --script work wrt fasls? 14:28:15 locklace: it doesn't have anything to do with fasls 14:28:44 Xach: it's part of my commitment to put something Planet Lisp just often enough to avoid being removed for inactivity! 14:28:57 if you do it for each release, you will have no trouble 14:29:09 More seriously, I think I may blog the release every month from now on. 14:29:12 Yes, exactly. 14:30:31 *splittist* wonders if he could get away with a montly 'ChandlerWatch' blog post... 14:30:50 -!- mikezor_ is now known as mikezor 14:31:04 There's not much to watch! 14:31:05 -!- danwhite [n=danwhite@118.107.62.52] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:31:19 (That's a misspelled 'monthly', not a botched reference to 'Full Monty'...) 14:31:31 Xach: because it doesn't compile-file? 14:31:39 I hope someone blogs about "--script" and the new s-l-a-d stuff. I'd like to hear the use cases. 14:31:57 *Xach* has a use case in mind, not enough time to finish it at the moment 14:32:00 locklace: it does not. 14:32:05 locklace: --script doesn't work with fasls currently 14:32:17 -!- creepoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has quit ["  "] 14:32:42 ok. i was just wondering if it would be possible to have a "compiled script" :) 14:32:51 *Xach* wants to do just that 14:32:53 there's a patch on sbcl-devel that makes it work, and makes compile-file prepend the #! line automatically -- but it's a bad idea 14:32:56 imo 14:33:05 or at least the second part is 14:33:11 that implementation strategy doesn't sound so great 14:33:49 because upgrading sbcl breaks fasl compatibility, and therefor all your compiled scripts 14:33:58 -!- segv__ is now known as segv 14:34:12 *Xach* is a little sad about http://l1sp.org/search?q=octets 14:34:16 but i suppose making manually prepended shebang lines work would be on 14:34:16 I'm looking forward to 28MB compiled scripts! 14:34:27 s/on/ok/ 14:34:38 locklace: compile the code, load it in, s-l-a-d :executable t, run the result with --script :) 14:35:17 Xach: should it not show octets-to-string &co ? 14:35:33 chandler: haha 14:35:42 nikodemus`: it means either octets-to-string are not documented, or my index-scraping program is not working right 14:35:46 nikodemus`: either way i'm a little sad 14:36:17 the former, I suspect 14:36:24 still waiting for a sane description of external formats 14:36:42 cmm: or just have a script that loads the compiled files... 14:36:58 including an implementation of stuff with line-endings or byte-order marks 14:37:19 -!- ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:39:15 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-19.dslextreme.com] has quit [No route to host] 14:39:27 Xach, me likes. 14:40:27 Xach, anything against making it http://l1sp.org/search/ instead? (less typing, easier to remember) 14:41:12 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 14:41:32 It's a possibility. I need to avoid search engines weaseling into the search system. 14:42:07 hmm. which section of the sbcl manual explains the rules for fasl file handling? 14:42:20 locklace: what handling did you have in mind? 14:42:24 Ah, query parameters avoids that. Hm. robots.txt or per-engine blocking in the request handler? 14:42:37 probably robots.txt. query parameters doesn't really avoid it here in 2008 14:43:08 Xach: just the basics and when and where they get created and used 14:43:11 Xach, OK, I thought you meant the current URL (as opposed to /search/foo) was to avoid search engines. 14:43:13 any objections to teaching DISASSEMBLE about methods with fast functions? 14:43:22 -!- zbigniew_ is now known as zbigniew 14:43:24 locklace: http://l1sp.org/cl/compile-file 14:43:35 locklace: and http://l1sp.org/cl/load 14:46:06 xan_ [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 14:46:30 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:47:27 Xach: i think what i want to know is implementation-specific, eg where sbcl stores and looks for fasls, when it decides to use them, etc. 14:47:37 nope. 14:48:44 ok, i take that back. LOAD uses an implementation-specific mechanism to decide whether to load source or fasl. not sure if it's documented in sbcl. 14:48:54 iirc it's not 14:48:59 person5 [i=a@c-67-185-17-84.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:49:24 but (load "foo.lisp") will always load the source, and (load "foo.fasl") will always load the fasl 14:50:05 if you say (load "foo"), and both "foo.lisp" and "foo.fasl" exist, and the fasl is newer, it is loaded 14:50:32 and what if "foo" exists? 14:50:37 if the source is newer, iirc you get an error with a couple restarts that allow you to choose the one you want 14:50:46 if it exists, it is loaded 14:50:48 if "foo" exists, we look for a fasl header string in it. 14:50:55 oops. right 14:50:57 locklace: does COMPILE-FILE-PATHNAME help you at all? 14:51:00 to decide whether it's source or fasl 14:51:30 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 14:52:43 ok, is any of this sbcl behaviour documented? :) 14:52:51 chandler: it does help some, thanks 14:53:30 locklace: nope. 14:54:16 hm, if i have fasl in foo.lisp and do (load "foo") i get The variable |LCBS 14:54:29 tic: ok, http://l1sp.org/search/ensure 14:54:29 yep. don't do that. 14:54:49 willb [n=wibenton@wireless119.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 14:55:05 you'll get an analogous problem if you have a fasl in a file with extension "lisp" 14:55:17 (I think.) 14:55:48 kreuter: but it works with (load "foo.lisp") 14:56:11 er, I meant if you have source in a file named foo.fasl. 14:56:41 kreuter: Could we perhaps continue working on merging my reader patches later today? 14:56:54 It's the first day since weeks where I have some free time. 14:57:07 kreuter: ok 14:57:16 nikodemus`: are you planning to teach disassemble about sb-pcl::%method-function or to allow it to accept methods directly? 15:01:17 tcr: I have a handful of things I have to get done in the next 6 or 7 hours. would some time after that be acceptable? 15:02:48 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=Andy@222.212.133.218] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:04:00 kreuter: Six hours sounds okish; I'll then have a time frame of about two hours until my gf comes back. 15:04:28 -!- x6j8x [n=x6j8x@tmo-100-65.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:04:59 okay 15:08:34 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:10:42 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:15:15 Xof: you don't happen to have access to a SPARC/Solaris build machine any more, do you? The binary on SF is awfully moldy, and it would be nice to get something newer up. 15:15:30 Hmm, I think I have one of those that I haven't turned on in ages. 15:15:39 I can try it out as a last resort. 15:15:53 (is the abi likely to be out of date if it's a few years old?) 15:16:05 I don't think so. Is it Solaris 8? 15:16:14 oh, darn it. i now remember i wiped it out and installed debian. 15:16:33 How old is the machine? If it's an UltraSPARC, you should be able to put 10 on it. 15:16:43 chandler: i could maybe do it 15:17:14 chandler: I can't remember, to be honest. It's from their "let's make a bunch of cheap IDE SPARC systems to compete with linux boxes" era. slow as hell. 15:17:16 I'm actually setting up a Linux/SPARC build environment right now as an experiment in using qemu. 15:17:33 nikodemus_ [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 15:17:37 *Xach* paid $100 or something, felt ripped off afterwards 15:18:04 let me see if I can make contact 15:18:34 I'm also wondering if anyone even has Alpha build hardware anymore. 15:18:47 *Xach* had an alpha, threw it out 15:19:04 I have an ultrasparc with solaris 10 on it 15:19:09 chandler: yes 15:19:14 *H4ns* has edi's alpha here, still in the box, waiting to be wanted as build system 15:19:18 I think I actually build sbcl on it somewhat recently 15:19:20 Heh. 15:19:21 I think I left my alpha in an apartment attic back in '99. 15:19:29 I have access to "SunOS rayhalle1 5.10 Generic_137111-08 sun4u sparc SUNW,Sun-Fire-880" 15:19:38 I have access to pkhuong's university which has alphas 15:19:40 allow it to accept method directly. that is, disassemble the safe-method-fast-function, or if it doesn't exits, disassemble method-function instead 15:20:04 tcr: That looks like it would be decently fast. 15:20:26 The first person to give me an updated Solaris/SPARC binary gets a cookie! 15:20:32 I'm not sure that's a great idea. On the other hand, I'd have no objection to doing something special for sb-pcl::%method-function objects 15:21:08 (I'm thinking about the generality of methods, versus the very specificity of %method-function: anyone can create a method, but only we create %method-functions 15:21:25 so, if given a %method-function, produce disassembly both of the function and of the associated fast-function 15:21:33 ah 15:21:33 willb1 [n=wibenton@wireless119.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 15:21:44 ) 15:21:48 Xach, [search] horray! 15:21:58 Xach, now, please implement fuzzy completion. :) 15:21:59 -!- willb1 [n=wibenton@wireless119.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:22:06 i don't even *like* fuzzy completion 15:22:10 milanj [n=milan@79.101.170.151] has joined #lisp 15:22:23 Xach, but with-output-to-string is so long to type! 15:22:30 though i kind of liked old fuzzy completion a bit... 15:22:40 tic: you mean wotos? :) 15:22:45 Is fuzzy completion the same as abbreviation expansion, or not? 15:22:49 pity you can't get Classic Fuzzy instead of the current Ridiculous Fuzzy 15:22:55 *tic* thought it was, maybe it's not? 15:22:59 *Xach* should hack it up 15:23:23 Xach: what do you mean by "old" fuzzy? 15:23:29 err "classic" 15:23:58 attila_lendvai, egg-sactly! that's what I want to type in to l1sp.org. http://l1sp.org/cl/w-o-t-s 15:24:19 ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:24:30 Would there be any objections if I removed the HPPA column and the OSF/1, IRIX, and HP-UX rows from the platform table? 15:25:11 w-o-t-s completes to with-output-to-string in non-fuzzy modes too 15:25:18 -!- nikodemus` [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:26:54 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:27:03 chandler: well, those platforms are certainly still in use, even if they're in the minority...question is how many sbclers are using them and whether you mind disappointing them... do you have download stats? 15:27:25 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 15:27:53 Is there a reason to use such a platform other than legacy? 15:27:56 locklace: They are already disappointed. 15:28:01 locklace: see http://www.sbcl.org/platform-table.html 15:28:22 Xof: i'm not sure that's a great idea, actually 15:28:30 The HPPA port has bitrotted. I tried resurrecting IRIX at some point, but I never got far in porting the kludges / workarounds that were in the CMUCL port to SBCL. 15:28:35 The OSF/1 port has bitrotted, too. 15:28:56 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 15:29:06 Xof: not for me. 15:29:29 in a %method-function, the disassembly of %method-function itself is pretty uninteresting, and if the use-code is smallish, it will be lost in the noise so to speak 15:29:35 Xof: though i'd very much like it to! what's your completion function? 15:29:35 chandler: ok, well if builds for them can't be supported then removing them is the thing to do 15:29:39 I could add in some wording about "historically, SBCL also ran on HP-PA processors under Linux and on OSF/1 Alpha machines, but these ports are no longer maintained" 15:30:13 xach: Problem I was having with clbuild due to a -m32 flag in libtest makefile. My systems are all 64 bit pure. 15:30:15 Xach: use the slime-editing-... contrib 15:30:23 tcr: I do. 15:30:56 so the normal use case of "what did my code compile to" is not so well served 15:30:59 i think it's a good idea to list whatever info is available for all platforms, even if it's "this used to work but is currently no longer maintained, ymmv" 15:31:03 tcr: (w-o-t-s C-c C-i => "Can't find completion for "w-o-t-s"" 15:31:12 Xach: Sorry, I meant the slime-c-p-c contrib 15:31:17 -!- person5 [i=a@c-67-185-17-84.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:31:27 ZabaQ: ayt? 15:31:28 tcr: thanks! 15:31:48 *Xach* feels much better 15:32:07 how about doing that for %method-functions, but also making disassemble understand methods directly: pull out the method-function, if it is a %method-function only disassemble the fast function, otherwise the method-function itself? 15:32:16 attila_lendvai: the Compound Prefix Completion is what I want. I'm glad it's still there. 15:32:25 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 15:32:30 acrid [n=mckay@reverse.control4.com] has joined #lisp 15:33:25 is there anyone here who has problems fetching http://common-lisp.net/ ? 15:33:33 H4ns: no 15:33:43 dlowe: do you mean nobody here has problems, or that you don't have problems? 15:34:03 *Xach* doesn't have a problem, either 15:34:16 *H4ns* wondered what psychic skillz dlowe posesses 15:34:27 nikodemus_: we disagree fundamentally on this point, and have done several times before: I don't like eliding the information that the user actually asked for 15:34:34 but I'm not the one doing the work 15:34:44 H4ns: http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/ 15:35:09 H4ns: I'd like if the default page that is generated for new projects contains the description that the project requester has to provide. 15:35:11 -!- edon [n=edon@albalug/edon] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:35:17 nikodemus_: and what if i actually want the method-function? 15:35:27 tcr: i find the "new projects" list rather useless 15:35:34 then pull it out and disassemble it 15:35:40 tcr: but you are welcome to make it better! 15:35:51 the same as if you want the actual true backtrace: bad luck 15:35:57 H4ns: me too. i wouldn't mind a "new projects that have websites" page 15:35:58 H4ns: It currently is, indeed. That's my point. 15:36:12 LESS MAGIC! 15:36:16 but i'm not opposed to having disassemble treat %method-function specially 15:36:21 Xach: "recently updated projects" would be good 15:36:30 H4ns: oh, even better! 15:36:40 but hey, the page is generated from a shell script! 15:36:43 heh 15:36:44 so i'll go ahead with that, and leave methods out of it for now 15:37:27 tic: w-o-t-s style matching has a fighting chance of being added. 15:37:36 tic: wotos, no 15:37:45 Xach, cheers for you! (w-o-ot-s is what I wanted) 15:37:55 make that w-o-t-s 15:38:10 nikodemus_: wait, what do you mean by specially? My special or your special? 15:38:10 (I don't get wotos though, where does the second 'o' come from attila_lendvai?) 15:38:18 -!- photon is now known as photon2 15:38:22 -!- photon2 is now known as photon 15:38:25 tic: w-o-to-s 15:38:30 (i guess) 15:38:33 i mean that i'm not opposed to your special 15:38:46 so i will do that, and leave my special out for now 15:39:03 but my special is to have both things disassembled, which you were opposed to 15:39:12 (and you might be right to oppose it if it's huge) 15:39:39 no. my special was that, and also tread method objects specially and slightly dwimmishly 15:39:56 wait; i'll paste 15:40:07 tic: then you are not using fuzzy completion. the value of 'slime-complete-symbol-function for me is 'slime-fuzzy-complete-symbol 15:40:15 my special is to have both the %method-function and the fast function disassembled 15:40:24 when disassemble is given a %method-function funcallable instance 15:40:40 attila_lendvai, you're absolutely correct, I use OmniComplete. ;) 15:40:44 Xach: C-P Completion is done on the Lisp side, so you can just use swank. 15:41:16 tcr, except when swank doesn't have the symbols, e.g. PCL's index. 15:41:28 (unless you can feed it the list of symbols to look through?) 15:41:42 i understand tcr to write "use" when he means "steal ideas and/or code from" 15:42:26 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64.252.112.36] has joined #lisp 15:44:20 I need that functionality myself, actually. 15:44:43 the actual code for the compound prefix matching is wonderfully terse 15:45:00 -!- mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@dm.sonopia.com] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 15:45:03 nikodemus pasted "disassembling method functions and methods" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/69514 15:45:17 i wrote a first version that was very ugly. luke was kind enough not to call it very ugly, but he did replace it with a pretty version. 15:46:01 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.248.11] has quit ["Somebody rebooted me"] 15:46:03 Xof: right, and my special is to do that, but when given a method whose method-function is a %method-function to only disassemble the fast function 15:47:36 which is exactly what I hate 15:47:41 not being able to get at the true information 15:47:47 oh, wait 15:47:48 sorry, no 15:48:04 you treat methods and %method-function differently? Fine 15:48:21 yes 15:48:31 except that I still don't like special treatment of methods at all :-) 15:48:47 but I hate your plan a little bit less now 15:49:04 like i said, i can leave it out for now 15:49:27 doing your bit is a clear improvement to current state of affairs at any rate 15:50:18 cool 15:50:59 on a related topic, would disassembling arg parsing code be hated? 15:51:16 (not doing that now, but for my next month's todo) 15:51:51 nikodemus_: I would like that, *sometimes*. 15:52:15 an additional keyword argument to disassemble, maybe? 15:52:46 lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-15-172.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:07 chris2 [n=chris@p5B16B089.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:53:43 FZ [n=chatzill@unaffiliated/fz] has joined #lisp 15:59:08 -!- trebor_win [n=none_ask@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has left #lisp 15:59:37 you mean the stuff before ; no-arg-parsing entry point? 15:59:58 I would prefer having the stuff before that be visible defaultly 16:00:28 yes 16:00:44 again, truth in disassembly :-) 16:01:09 tic: http://l1sp.org/search/e-d-e 16:02:30 *Xach* should make *d-p-d* work, but that feels almost fuzzy 16:02:31 -!- lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-15-172.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 16:02:40 -!- eevar2 [n=jalla@106.80-203-27.nextgentel.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:02:48 Xach, nice! 16:03:06 *tic* tries finding a unique abbreviation to see what happens 16:03:13 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:03:14 nothing clever 16:03:15 ths [n=ths@p54A47310.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:03:19 -!- VityokOrgUa [n=user@193.109.118.130] has quit [" "] 16:03:37 -!- gigamonkey` [n=user@adsl-99-184-207-175.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:03:46 *tic* gives Xach a cookie 16:03:56 -!- wchogg [n=wchogg@h216-165-145-181.mdtnwi.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:04:19 Xach: you need ajax-driven fuzzy completion in the search box :) 16:04:31 lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-15-172.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:04:48 *Xach* needs a search box, period! 16:04:51 hugod_ [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1279442362.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 16:05:37 replor [n=replor@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:09:02 *Xach* balks at the djungelvrål cookie 16:09:32 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:10:15 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 16:10:34 djungelvrål ftw! mmm salty licorice 16:10:55 ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has joined #lisp 16:11:06 although, making a /cookie/ from it might not be a success. (if it's not a chocolate bar, in which case it's a match made in heaven) 16:11:49 -!- hugod [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1279440976.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:15:06 arbscht_ [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 16:15:34 Does anyone have any comments about the wording of the SBCL download page: http://www.sbcl.org/platform-table.html ? 16:16:56 how about moving the "Historically ..." and "Older binaries .." parts below the table? 16:17:06 That's a good idea. 16:17:51 yep. also maybe it's worth adding a "if you'd like to be a maintainer for a platform, ..."? 16:18:22 nikodemus_: is that better? 16:18:38 yes 16:19:10 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 16:19:30 locklace: I'm not sure how much sense that makes - I'd expect anyone who could do that to already be subscribed to sbcl-devel 16:19:59 what would it look like if the processors names were spelled out in the table? x86, x86-64, PPC, SPARC, Alpha, MIPS*, MIPS** 16:20:23 and footnotes for * and ** -> big-endian & little endian 16:20:38 ok. i guess i wasn't thinking "maintainer" so much as someone who might want to help provide up-to-date builds for a platform 16:20:41 Hm. I could probably make the squares a little larger, and do that. 16:21:37 nikodemus_: in practice, basically everyone is going to be going for one of the intels these days, anyway 16:21:56 btw, when does the "news" page on the web site get updated? 16:22:04 locklace: at release time 16:22:17 and there are no recent binaries for anything except the intels and, bizarrely, both MIPS 16:22:19 nikodemus_: MIPSbe + MIPSle, probably. 16:22:35 (who out there is building it on BOTH endian mips? :) ) 16:22:40 ths is! 16:22:51 chandler: oh, i see it's updated now, it said "1.0.19" up through 1.0.21 ;) 16:23:34 if my experiment in cross-compiling using a qemu system goes well, I may start buidling on linux/sparc and linux/mips[bl]e regularly 16:23:58 alpha will just have to bitrot on its own! 16:23:58 last time I tried getting qemu to do anything I failed 16:24:01 but good luck 16:24:21 were you using user or system emulation? 16:24:24 chandler: find someone in a university that has an old one lying about :) 16:24:32 system 16:24:41 and, as I say, pkhuong's institution has alphas 16:24:46 chandler: qemu/mips runs in an inefficiency of the MIPS TLB emulation, bootstrapping SBCL in it is very slow (but works). 16:24:54 well, the moment of truth is upon is 16:25:08 chandler: i have fbsd/sparc too, if that can emulate linux/sparc somehow. 16:25:42 I don't think user emulation is good for SBCL. 16:26:11 ths: I'm cross compiling, so the really long parts (host-1 and host-2) are on a very fast CPU 16:26:25 -!- Eno_ [n=anon@fl-67-76-215-49.sta.embarqhsd.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:26:42 is there much call for sbcl on MIPS? 16:26:43 :) 16:26:52 also, anyone ever tried an IA64 port? 16:26:54 Eno_ [n=anon@fl-67-76-215-49.sta.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 16:27:08 pkhuong: linux/sparc I have 16:27:12 just not sunos/sparc 16:27:50 rsynnott: The number of downloads from sourceforge suggests a certain demand. 16:27:50 Xof: warm init just completed, and we're off into PCL land 16:27:56 -!- arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:28:01 excellent 16:28:14 rsynnott: There are powerful Linux/MIPS machines still being made 16:28:14 I probably had an ancient version of qemu 16:28:33 rsynnott: See for instance http://www.movidis.com/products/rev.html 16:28:42 (IA64 would be interesting, but probably extremely difficult; a lot of stuff that is handled by hardware scheduling on most modern chips must be done manually for decent performance) 16:28:43 "Use latest SVN" is the best rule of thumb WRT Qemu. 16:29:00 plus, of course, the hardware is pretty much unavailable 16:29:03 ths: I'm using the 0.9.1 release. What would I get in newest SVN? 16:29:20 chandler: wow. missed that. 16:29:22 ebzzry [n=ebzzry@115.147.100.214] has joined #lisp 16:29:27 Yes, Itanium hardware is a lot harder to come across than MIPS hardware. 16:29:28 impressive-looking thing, actually 16:29:49 rsynnott: You can get that processor in a PCIe board, too. 16:29:55 I only know of one Itanium machine actually in use outside supercomputer-land 16:30:02 chandler: A new code generator, tons of bug fixes, better hardware emulation, and much more I don't remember now. 16:30:14 it's a shame, really; very clever arch in principle 16:30:29 ths: Hm. I'll give it a try. 16:30:53 holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #lisp 16:31:06 chandler: The old code generator is still in use for the ppc targets, so you still need gcc3. Everything else works now with gcc4. 16:31:47 can I disable building PPC? I have a fast PPC machine to use for builds already. 16:32:15 *chandler* will try, rather than asking! 16:32:22 -!- jtoy [n=jtoy@58.63.171.97] has quit [] 16:33:37 chandler: Yes, try ./configure --help for all the options. 16:35:10 does sbcl do ppc64, or just 32bit? 16:35:22 just 32-bit 16:35:38 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:37:45 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-254-225.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [] 16:38:15 robot_jesus [n=csanders@hoovers-241.hoovers.com] has joined #lisp 16:38:17 -!- splittist [n=splittis@213.235.9.122] has quit ["go go platforms"] 16:39:24 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-254-225.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 16:42:43 -!- chris2 is now known as antichris2 16:43:39 OK, now the name of the processor is in the header: http://www.sbcl.org/platform-table.html 16:44:49 -!- happycodemonkey [n=carriear@147.226.193.131] has quit ["He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the aby] 16:45:02 -!- milanj [n=milan@79.101.170.151] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:45:07 how's the windows one doing these days? 16:45:19 it's still a kitten of death, if that's what you're asking 16:45:44 I don't remember what the criteria are for calling it done. 16:45:53 tsk 16:46:04 still crash-y? 16:46:11 I haven't used it in a year or so 16:46:21 Wasn't it threading and not-subject-to-mmap-problems? 16:46:32 I don't think it's particularly crashy now. 16:47:07 Are the commercial Lisps relocatable? My vague memory is that both of them have non-relocatable portions at least. 16:47:38 manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-085-216-061-130.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #lisp 16:47:39 Allegro appears to use fixed memory maps, according to the documentation. 16:47:50 hi 16:48:16 well, sbcl's download page is definitely friendlier than ccl's :) 16:49:48 rpg_ [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 16:50:09 (ccl's consists of an svn link, plus a reference to an ftp directory with some disk images in it) 16:50:22 -!- rpg_ [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:50:22 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:51:17 rsynnott: what, you don't like svn? 16:51:22 -!- lucka_ [n=mornfall@ip-89-102-33-70.karneval.cz] has quit [Client Quit] 16:52:34 meingbg [n=user@remote2.student.chalmers.se] has joined #lisp 16:53:10 sellout: It's a subversion of what a real source control system should be. 16:53:49 nyef: agreed ... but it's the best thing that comes pre-installed on Macs. 16:54:54 -!- meingbg [n=user@remote2.student.chalmers.se] has quit [Client Quit] 16:54:56 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit ["..."] 16:55:25 meingbg [n=user@remote2.student.chalmers.se] has joined #lisp 16:57:55 sellout: I have no problem with it, but making the links to the fully-precompiled packages more obvious would be useful 16:58:13 *rsynnott* considers svn to be the worst vcs, except for all the others 16:58:40 rsynnott: Agreed. I was planning to steal the SBCL model :) 16:58:45 %method-function disassembly smarts in cvs 16:59:28 rme [n=rme@pool-70-104-127-61.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:23 -!- kuwabara [n=Kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.eu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:01:01 Hey, I would like to add object persistency to my app using clisp, anyone got ideas? I've been looking around quite a bit, seems like the good packages out ther don't support clisp? 17:02:04 -!- lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-15-172.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 17:02:46 meingbg: i don't know, sorry. when i've had simple enough needs, i persist things via PRINT and load them back with READ. 17:03:56 meingbg, no elephant? 17:04:30 tic: Does it support clisp? Or should I use another implementation? 17:04:56 -!- joshe [n=aurum@opal.elsasser.org] has quit ["leaving"] 17:05:16 meingbg, I don't know about Elephant's support, but it's an object persistance library. Many in #lisp use SBCL. 17:05:34 (or multiple Lisps, it seems.) 17:05:50 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-254-225.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has left #lisp 17:07:21 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:08:18 I thought everyone agreed that sbcl was dead ??! 17:08:19 -!- tayssir [n=user@streamtech.xs4all.nl] has quit [No route to host] 17:08:55 schme_: ? 17:09:17 to me, it seems the other way around. 17:09:33 SBCL agreed everyone was dead? 17:09:47 kuwabara [n=Kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:51 (save-lisp-and-die). Might have a point in there. 17:10:35 beach: ? 17:10:56 There seems to be no elephant for the clisp, no :) 17:11:17 schme_: AFAICS "everyone" was a very small set of people. 17:11:21 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 17:11:34 Ya. 17:11:50 did anyone agree that SBCL was dead? I'm having a hard time parsing "dead" here 17:11:51 Well time to get dressed up and get drunk, eh?! 17:11:55 happy halloween everyone :) 17:11:59 Lisp is dead, sure. 17:12:06 or is this halloween trolling? :-) 17:12:14 schme_: wtf? where did you come up with that? 17:12:30 chandler, the undead Lisp! Trick or parens! 17:12:33 jfrancis [n=jfrancis@72.14.224.1] has joined #lisp 17:12:38 tic: um, trick 17:12:41 I came up with it the other day while there was lots of people talking about abcl and someone suggested that no one used sbcl anymore :) 17:12:50 But I'm off :) 17:12:51 hah 17:13:03 -!- jfrancis [n=jfrancis@72.14.224.1] has quit [Client Quit] 17:13:03 *tic* throws a C++ book at Chandler 17:13:03 So, elephant has support for SBCL, but not clisp. Or other way around, perhaps. 17:13:08 jfrancis [n=jfrancis@72.14.224.1] has joined #lisp 17:13:10 -!- ivan4th [n=ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:13:19 meingbg, do you require clisp for a specific purpose? 17:13:27 schme_: we in the abcl community could only wish that were the case... 17:13:46 tic: no, I'm just halfway confused in the war between lisp implementations. 17:13:56 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@212.88.117.162] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:14:00 UnwashedMeme [n=nathan@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 17:14:14 How there can be a war between non-existent communities I don't know... 17:14:24 how many developers and users does abcl have? 17:14:29 meingbg, they often solve different problems. clisp for example is good for runtime recompilation, because it's fast. and very portable. 17:14:32 -!- kuwabara [n=Kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:14:37 Actually, I wouldn't want *less* people around sbcl: otherwise how would I know what the crrect behavior for abcl would be? 17:14:43 meingbg, (the compilation step is fast.) 17:14:46 runtime recompilation? 17:14:54 Xach, COMPILE is quick, IIRC. 17:15:21 *Xach* hadn't noticed, but doesn't use clisp as much as sbcl 17:15:33 tic: Well, right now I need support for elephant or another persistency package... I guess that pulls me away from clisp. 17:15:42 I think I read it in the paper on how to produce Lisp code that runs faster than C. 17:17:00 epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has joined #lisp 17:17:51 kuwabara [n=Kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.fr] has joined #lisp 17:18:51 Does anyone have information on which lisp implementation is the most used one? Is it perhaps one of the non-free? 17:19:04 http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/detail.php?group_id=1373&ugn=sbcl&mode=alltime&&type=prdownload 17:19:09 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 17:19:25 anyone want to bet when sbcl gets >10k downloads per month? 17:19:31 interesting 17:19:44 *dlowe* prefers the git repo. 17:20:05 nikodemus: the day after Christmas? 17:20:16 what happened in June 2005? 17:20:20 sellout, I think september 31st 17:20:36 when was the 1.0 release? 17:20:45 Xach, PCL? 17:21:20 tic: What about it? 17:21:42 Xach: It was published 17:21:52 tcr: 22 months ago, maybe? 17:21:54 Xof asked about it. 17:21:54 Xach, sorry, was meant for Xof. Publication date for Practical Common Lisp. 17:22:16 http://planet.lisp.org/2005/6.html doesn't suggest anything to me 17:22:29 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #lisp 17:22:33 *tic* blames insufficiently smart autocompletion 17:22:53 maybe an errant bot? 17:23:01 jlf` [n=user@209.204.171.109] has joined #lisp 17:23:19 obviously the climacs screenies made people go nuts about Lisp. 17:24:22 *Xach* is sad about all the dead links there 17:24:27 lemonodor [n=lemonodo@66.43.112.62] has joined #lisp 17:24:57 I'm with dlowe on using the git mirror 17:26:35 -!- nikodemus_ [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:26:46 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-67-124-36-5.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:27:16 nikodemus: well, I'm trying to get more binaries up to date, which may help boost the download count 17:27:26 *meingbg* caused sbcl increased download count for today 17:27:29 hooray! 17:27:58 also, I'll try blogging about the release every month 17:28:05 who knows, it might help :-) 17:29:25 anoncvs reads look odd 17:29:26 http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/detail.php?group_id=1373&ugn=sbcl&type=cvs&mode=12months&year=2006 17:29:41 chandler: do you have the write bit for the freshmeat page? 17:29:42 chandler: I'm building Linux/ppc now. 17:30:00 all right, sbcl failed install, now what? 17:30:15 nikodemus: I do. actually, I've forgotten all about that 17:30:26 sadly, there are probably more downloads of arc :P 17:31:18 meingbg: how so? 17:31:30 lisppaste: url? 17:31:30 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 17:31:34 meingbg: paste the messages there 17:31:40 http://www.stat.umn.edu/arc/software.html # the real arc :P 17:32:42 besiria [n=user@ppp083212086009.dsl.uom.gr] has joined #lisp 17:33:00 meingbg pasted "sbcl failed install" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/69521 17:33:20 oh. don't install it from apt-get 17:33:37 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:55 chandler: OK, I'll try download it. 17:34:24 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:35:18 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 17:36:29 meingbg: Which system / system version do you use? (A plain Debian install shouldn't fail.) 17:36:57 -!- ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:37:18 ths: it's plan Debian. 17:37:31 Version? 17:39:00 4.0 17:39:42 Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 (etch) 17:40:44 Strange, I don't know of such a failure. Please report it to the Debian bugtracker (easiest with reportbug). 17:42:36 All right. It works now. 17:42:39 I'll file a bug. 17:44:18 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-104-127-61.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 17:44:36 rme [n=rme@pool-70-104-127-61.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:50:51 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177150201.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:51:23 can one change/use the copier generated by defstruct so it copies a structure but changes some params | is there another built-in way to do this ? 17:51:31 newbie lisper, dont shoot me :) 17:51:50 -!- l4ndfo [n=l4ndfo@catv-89-132-93-183.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:52:38 (defstruct (foo ... (:copier %copy-foo)) ...) (defun copy-foo (foo) (let ((copy (%copy-foo foo))) ...change things... foo) 17:53:09 that is, you need to define a function that does the changes you want, and call the copier from it 17:53:40 and returning the copy instead of the original from the wrapper is probably a good idea... :P 17:54:02 well, I'm supposed to write things functional, so no setf etc (although I dont know if your solution violates that requirement) 17:54:06 well, unless you ENJOY perplexing your users 17:54:34 PissedNumlock: why? 17:54:35 since it does not change the object you give to the copier 17:54:40 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:55:03 "I'm supposed to write things functional" sounds like homework to me - is this the case? 17:55:04 academic purposes, I only learned OO (well, I have seen basic functional programming in my first year) 17:55:09 PissedNumlock: make copy, loop for slot in structure, change where appropriate? 17:55:32 (assuming that there is a way to get a list of slots in a structure; I have never ever used defstruct) 17:55:50 not rly homework chandler, working on my bachelor thesis, but I'm getting started with lisp first 17:56:12 but it's a little 'assignment' my promotor gave me to get started 17:56:30 thx for the answers, just wanted to know if I missed smthg obvious 17:57:13 sounds like a slightly mad assignment :) 17:57:22 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:53 The automagic copier will be useless in this endeavor. 17:58:16 PissedNumlock: is the a specific solution you need, or a general one? that is, do you have have to just have a COPY-FOO that does that, or do you have to say "this is how you write a DEFSTRUCT like form that automatically creates an almost-copier"? 17:58:40 ok, I think this is enough messing with the download table for today: http://www.sbcl.org/platform-table.html 17:59:30 it's got a nice "flaming b2 bomber" look to it. 17:59:42 -!- elurin [n=user@81.213.203.109] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:59:59 though strictly speaking most of the grey in the win32 row is a lie 18:00:13 I don't think anybody cares about NT4 anymore 18:00:19 -!- mega1 [n=mega@pool-0471d.externet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:00:19 certainly the x86 port won't run on that 18:00:53 maybe my "certainly" is a little too certain - ISTR nyef saying he was using Win2k-and-up APIs 18:00:54 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-206-75-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 18:01:15 ZabaQ: aroundp 18:01:33 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.3.254.31] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:02:10 vixey [n=witch@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:05:36 rsynnott: a quick & dirty first pass: http://trac.clozure.com/openmcl/wiki/WikiStart 18:06:07 kuhzoo [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has joined #lisp 18:06:32 -!- Krystof [i=csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:07:15 chandler: nice 18:07:29 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-199-184-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 18:08:14 ciscbrain [n=eugen@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 18:08:41 I think I remember some win2k-only calls in there somewhere. 18:08:56 I wouldn't be terribly surprised. 18:09:10 -!- epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has quit ["  "] 18:10:44 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-171-245.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:11:56 epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has joined #lisp 18:14:38 -!- mogunus [n=marco@173.9.7.10] has quit ["leaving"] 18:14:49 mogunus [n=marco@173.9.7.10] has joined #lisp 18:18:32 nikodemus` [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 18:19:17 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:19:41 pitui [n=pitui@doh.research.att.com] has joined #lisp 18:20:20 -!- lemonodor [n=lemonodo@66.43.112.62] has quit [] 18:21:19 -!- photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has left #lisp 18:21:47 sellout: much better :) 18:21:59 cool, chipz now supports bzip2 decompression. 18:22:00 ooh, there's a solaris beta? 18:22:11 with threads? 18:22:27 rsynnott: solaris beta of what? 18:23:01 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:23:28 ccl 18:23:36 rsynnott: Actually, I just sent out a mail to the devs asking them to give better labels as to the level of completion of their ports. I just guessed. 18:24:02 sellout: is the 386 version actually that far along, then? 18:24:08 rsynnott: you should be able to build SBCL for Solaris x86 with threads, actually 18:24:16 (if you care) 18:25:15 really? didn't know that 18:25:16 cool 18:25:54 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:26:43 rsynnott: I really don't know. 18:27:41 rsynnott: Beyond Darwin and Linux x86-64, I have enough trouble just remember what's supported, let alone how far along newer ports are (hopefully this table will help) 18:28:09 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:28:19 Xach: I think planet.sbcl.org is outta whack again. 18:28:23 borism [n=boris@195-50-212-207-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 18:28:40 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 18:29:10 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless119.cs.wisc.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:29:49 yeah :( 18:29:52 -!- appletizer [i=user@82-46-30-39.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:29:59 *Xach* will just change the refreshes to force-refreshes 18:30:14 is it something that sourceforge is doing? 18:30:15 is there a standard way to do raw terminal input? 18:30:20 locklace: no. 18:30:21 is a chipz & salza merger on the horizon? 18:30:25 nikodemus`: no 18:30:39 ok 18:31:11 is there a recommended non-standard way? 18:31:11 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:32:18 -!- hsaliak [n=hsaliak@cm89.sigma229.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:32:29 kreuter: sssort of. at time T my software says "Has the sbcl feed been updated since last time I checked?". At time T+1 the git software gets a commit with a timestamp of T-1. My software then re-asks: "Has the sbcl feed been updated since the last time I checked (T)?" The feed software says "Nope, last update was T-1." 18:33:01 locklace: hmm, not sure. clisp has some stuff built-in. i don't think, outside of that, there is a really baked solution. 18:33:08 hsaliak [n=hsaliak@cm89.sigma229.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 18:33:26 kreuter: so my timestamps march into the future without picking up the retroactive updates 18:33:39 kreuter: what i need to do instead is save the timestamp of the last item 18:33:40 locklace: what do you need to do? 18:33:49 Xach: okay. 18:34:12 *Xach* can imagine all kinds of cool things to do with raw terminals, like a tty gui repl! 18:34:42 locklace: if you just want to futz with the tty's settings, you can do that through some bindings in sb-posix. there are also curses bindings around, if you need something fancier. 18:34:48 Xach: careful; that way lies madness and Kenny Tilton's insane opengl inspector 18:34:51 kreuter: it's required for basically any kind of terminal-based interface apart from the simplest line-oriented cli 18:35:07 -!- borism_ [n=boris@195-50-206-75-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 18:35:15 locklace: iirc linedit offers something of that, now that i think of it 18:35:16 locklace: so you're just taking a survey? 18:36:52 *hefner* misses the elegance of the old pc character mode 18:37:00 Xach: oh, that looks quite useful even if it doesn't do raw input, thanks 18:37:00 willb [n=wibenton@wireless119.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 18:37:02 *Xach* imagines Xof composing a sourceforge bug report: "where are my download charts in log scale?" 18:37:31 Mr_SpOOn [n=Mr_SpOOn@89-97-102-218.ip17.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 18:41:21 ecraven [n=nex@plc31-103.linzag.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:45 elurin [n=user@81.213.203.109] has joined #lisp 18:41:55 seelenquell__ [n=seelenqu@pD9E43D10.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:14 -!- besiria [n=user@ppp083212086009.dsl.uom.gr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:43:48 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Operation timed out] 18:43:50 -!- Cel [n=Cel@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:44:19 there is terminfo.lisp 18:44:35 that's the output half, anyway 18:44:37 and linedit has code to set the terminal to raw mode 18:45:00 oops, not just the output half, sorry. 18:45:27 *nikodemus`* should give linedit and osicat some love, some of these days 18:46:17 is there any documentation for either of them? 18:46:51 terminfo.lisp and linedit? 18:47:01 terminfo.lisp is iirc poorly documented 18:47:08 willb1 [n=wibenton@wireless119.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 18:47:18 -!- willb1 [n=wibenton@wireless119.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:47:28 willb2 [n=wibenton@wireless119.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 18:47:28 linedit's exported functions should be documented, but the terminal twiddling isn't 18:47:36 linedit and osicat 18:47:37 as it's not exported 18:47:58 likewise for osicat: public interfaces should have docstrings 18:48:30 ok, didn't see any docs online but will look in the tarballs 18:48:46 the webpage for osicat is out of date, by the way: the CVS has been replaced by a git repo 18:49:36 http://common-lisp.net/project/osicat/git/osicat # iirc 18:50:32 (they and alexandria are the projects i want to give xaediware-style docs for) 18:50:52 that would be very helpful, yes 18:51:49 alexandria has the pdf doc at least 18:51:51 *attila_lendvai* votes for a PCL fix... if it's consuming the same amount of time... :) 18:52:17 same time but not same brain cycles :) 18:52:25 oh, that's true. 18:52:52 attila_lendvai: what are you guys working on these days, by the way? 18:53:11 doxtor [i=phytovor@unaffiliated/mitja] has joined #lisp 18:54:05 nikodemus`: we are still running that project for the gov. we've just signed a contract with another ministry for a similar application, but with a more reasonable price this time. enough to pay us an average salary for a year. 18:54:10 adeht: are you here? 18:54:14 attila_lendvai: grats 18:54:28 coolness 18:54:33 well, we still need to deliver... but seems doable. 18:54:55 edon [n=edon@albalug/edon] has joined #lisp 18:57:40 vy [n=user@88.231.235.151] has joined #lisp 18:58:23 -!- seelenquell_ [n=seelenqu@pD9E47359.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:59:43 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless119.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:02:49 -!- sabetts [n=sabetts@S0106000a95700fd8.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:03:04 -!- cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has quit [] 19:05:17 -!- mulligan [n=user@e178040027.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:14:55 -!- adicarlo [i=adam@66-234-56-82.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:15:02 -!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@208.72.159.207] has quit ["Want lisppaste in your channel? 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How common is it really to get employed to write lisp prorams? 19:40:53 meingbg: I think that depends on how well you can solve puzzles about strawberry fields. 19:41:09 -!- topo__ [n=topo@200.37.161.41] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:41:10 aka ITA. :) 19:41:17 meingbg, check w/ hypno 19:41:41 howcome SBCL 19:41:42 njsg [n=njsg@unaffiliated/njsg] has joined #lisp 19:41:43 oops 19:41:53 howcome SBCL's copy of ASDF doesn't include the tests in cclan? 19:42:54 tic: I see, lisp is for real problems, right? 19:43:07 meingbg, indeed, very much so 19:43:11 real *and* imaginary problems. 19:43:16 ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:19 [Head|Rest] [n=macosx@217.149.185.250] has joined #lisp 19:43:24 kreuter: you mean complex problems? 19:43:25 wait wait wait, lisp is for fairies in imagination land 19:43:40 dlowe: yessir! 19:43:55 meingbg, I find Lisp excellent for writing pseudo code that compiles. 19:44:37 tic: AKA intentional programming :) 19:44:51 -!- x6j8x [n=x6j8x@77.21.43.186] has quit [] 19:45:28 neurogeek_ [n=neurogee@201.208.73.206] has joined #lisp 19:46:08 meingbg, this is my answer -> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/106058/practical-example-of-lisps-flexibility#108068 19:46:22 -!- creddy [n=CrazyEdd@220-253-113-170.VIC.netspace.net.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:46:51 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 19:47:29 creddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 19:49:52 nurv101 [n=askmefor@bl10-158-83.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 19:50:17 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:50:56 kuhzoo1 [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has joined #lisp 19:51:11 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:53:14 -!- elurin [n=user@81.213.203.109] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:54:55 tic: If Charles Simonyi had taken a look at lisp... but no, he wanted more, and hasn't really been able to deliver. Who knows, perhaps one day he'll get something out on the market. 19:55:37 having boatloads of cash surely is a drain on motivation 19:55:58 (well, maybe not, but i think it would demotivate *me* somewhat) 19:55:59 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-94c4714ee346d02b] has joined #lisp 19:56:32 meingbg, I don't know who Charles Simonyi is. 19:56:46 Xach: yeah, maybe we all need to go bankrupt every now and then. 19:56:55 nowedont! 19:57:39 and look at Paul Graham... nothing to do with himself but develop a new language, and all he does is remove some parens from Scheme. 19:58:10 tic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intentional_programming 19:59:51 kreuter: Perhaps he makes the combined trip that all the other language developers have made, before he comes up with a real invention. 20:00:51 heh, strawberry fields was the puzzle I applied with :P 20:02:14 kreuter: also vowels! 20:03:01 kreuter, so PG is still in the lisp stage of "I wanna make a lisp with less parens"? 20:03:17 kreuter, hy lk cn stll prgrm wtht vwls! 20:03:21 sellout: heh. my favorite anti-PG joke. 20:03:42 tic: works for hebrew :P 20:04:01 hebrew has vowel points :p 20:04:10 -!- ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:04:22 -!- kuhzoo [n=kuhzoo@office.01.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:04:56 kreuter: we cn optmze sftwr devlpmnt tme if we typ lss 20:05:15 CL cde is to vrbse 20:05:32 please stop. 20:05:37 dcrawford, only in the sacred texts I think? 20:06:10 heh :-) 20:06:23 ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:33 *chandler* didn't see tic's comment until now 20:07:13 tic: like M-ght ? 20:07:17 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@217.202.72.63] has joined #lisp 20:07:39 H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0DC82.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:44 hello 20:07:49 .. ( AIM-8 ) 20:08:29 Xach: dcrawford: Do both of you work at ITA? 20:08:54 drewc: ping 20:09:06 H4ns1: ack 20:09:35 meingbg, I do; not xach 20:09:41 drewc: what wordlist is that which is requested through viewcvs? 20:09:56 dcrawford: ah, yes, but no hebrew in arc 20:10:02 unicode is irrelevant, remember? 20:10:22 H4ns1: "GET /cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/cl-irc/example/words?annotate=1.1&root=cl-irc HTTP/1.1" 20:10:25 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-171-245.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:10:49 dcrawford: So do ITA and lisp have anything to do with each other? 20:11:02 meingbg: they employ a few dozen lisp hackers 20:11:26 including some famous ones like dan weinreb and dcrawford 20:11:44 *cough* 20:11:55 bah, you're a contractor. 20:11:56 sellout: you are famous, too! 20:11:59 heheh 20:12:08 sellout: aren't you Clozure? 20:12:14 Xach: I was more coughing at your definition of fame ;) 20:12:19 if you go to contractors .. then also kreuter 20:12:29 you blew his cover! 20:12:35 BOOM! 20:13:15 huh? 20:13:22 I'm not technically a contractor. 20:13:28 I'm technically in limbo 20:13:42 Yeah, kreuter doesn't even get paid, he just has nothing better to do. 20:13:43 rvirding [n=chatzill@h235n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 20:14:12 sellout: see, once you learn to photosynthesize, all you need is decent lighting. 20:14:15 ah, an intern then :P 20:14:25 -!- novaburst [i=nova@sourcemage/mage/novaburst] has left #lisp 20:14:29 kreuter: Man, I hope you have a window, then. 20:14:39 coders photosynthesize flouresent lighting :) 20:14:43 dcrawford, what'd M-ght do? 20:14:54 tic: ... AIM-8 w/o vowels 20:15:05 dcrawford, EPARSE 20:15:19 drewc: do you have any idea why this url is requested so often? 20:15:51 drewc: one possible option would be to put squid in front of the apache and make it never expire the cache entry for that (and other critical) resources 20:16:05 H4ns: it's fishy.. the referers are all identical. 20:16:27 drewc: well, then junk the url and be done with it :) 20:16:39 drewc: what's the referer, out of curiosity? 20:16:55 "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 2.0.50727)" 20:17:01 that's a user-agent! 20:17:17 sorry .... i meant user agents! 20:17:24 H4ns1: what's the offending URL? 20:17:32 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #lisp 20:17:37 *drewc* is not thinking straight for some reason 20:17:38 (9:09:31 PM) drewc: H4ns1: "GET /cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/cl-irc/example/words?annotate=1.1&root=cl-irc HTTP/1.1" 20:17:57 oh, that's... odd 20:18:28 someone polling for changes, maybe? 20:18:37 oh, though no, it's a specific version 20:18:58 "GET /cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/cl-irc/example/words%3Fannotate%3D1.1%26root%3Dcl-irc&usg=AFQjCNHuGDbWGC-K9GtL0BxhzI9w_FVqmg HTTP/1.1" <--- some look like that 20:19:08 ok, problem fixed 20:19:08 maybe someone left a browser on auto-refresh (opera at least sometimes does this), then died :) 20:19:22 *chandler* removed words from the repository, then eliminated it from the attic 20:19:38 *g* 20:19:39 *tic* googles for AIM-8 20:19:41 more seriously, it might be an automated attempt to hit a viewcvs vulnerability 20:19:52 dcrawford, speakers? 20:20:18 it's mccarthy's lisp paper 20:20:24 tic: ai memo 20:20:32 hi 20:20:33 http://secunia.com/advisories/13703/ , perhaps 20:20:37 it would be so nice if viewcvs supported if-modified-since 20:20:49 you probably don't have content-type in the logs, though 20:21:12 in the beginning there was mccarthy, and he was bored 20:21:57 we can be very grateful he lacked IRC 20:22:24 Is there a shortcut for getting the n-th-from-the-right bit of an integer? 20:22:38 ldb? 20:22:42 vy: what is this "right" of which you speak? 20:22:50 or logbitp 20:23:01 *dcrawford* too slow 20:23:23 elurin [n=user@81.213.203.109] has joined #lisp 20:24:31 Damn! I always forget the name of LDB. 20:24:52 -!- davazp [n=user@77.Red-83-54-164.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:24:56 just had to use it recently myself 20:25:58 chandler: that's one way to do it! 20:28:01 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 20:30:11 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 20:33:12 meingbg: for the record, i was leed engineer at intensoft before i quit with a few colleagues and started our own company 2.5 years ago... :) 20:33:17 drewc: can you close the ticket? 20:33:36 H4ns: closing all related tickets now 20:33:47 drewc: you commented only, which is internal and not sent to the requestor. 20:33:51 drewc: thanks! 20:33:53 stassats, aha, thanks. 20:34:01 H4ns: d0h! 20:34:21 drewc: you can reply and close at the same time through the web i/f 20:34:42 H4ns: that's what i thought i did! :S 20:35:08 *drewc* cannot even use his cell phone very well. 20:35:08 -!- ciscbrain [n=eugen@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:35:10 drewc: you clicked "close" but failed to change the message to be a "reply" 20:35:27 drewc: i agree that rt stinks, but it is not _that_ bad i think. 20:35:54 drewc: "it is software, sure it stinks" 20:36:25 H4ns1: i have problems using our accounting software as well.. i just expect too much of it.. DWIM damnit! 20:36:43 drewc, did you write it? 20:37:19 the accounting software? no. we use sql-ledger. 20:37:25 meingbg: it's also of a notable detail that charles started intentsoft with kitzales (of lisp fame). unfortunately i came a month later, so i didn't have the chance to meet him in person... :( (we worked from hungary or from his yacht) 20:38:08 attila_lendvai: working from a yacht! what a great concept. 20:38:19 :) 20:38:24 drewc: bleh, i was alway seasick... :) 20:38:46 drewc: you know "cooking the books" of black books? bernard gives good advice in that episode on how you can avoid doing your accounts. 20:39:16 Kiczales is cool. 20:39:56 yeah, he left intentsoft quietly but quickly 20:40:02 H4ns1: almost worth it. 20:40:50 attila_lendvai: we had him at a lispvan last year-ish. It was great, he's a smart guy and had well prepared answers for our 'wtf java?" questions :) 20:41:16 ecraven [n=nex@plc31-103.linzag.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:07 drewc: ehh, i always wondered what he's doing with aspectj... :) but i think he mostly just gave his name, and some ideas at various brainstorming sessions... 20:43:05 *attila_lendvai* (ab)used aspectj for a year or two, feeding the compiler writers a few bad debugging sessions... 20:43:05 -!- deximer [n=deximer@168.203.117.66] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:43:43 attila_lendvai: do you find contextL as cool as i do? 20:44:36 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0DC7.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:44:39 benny [n=benny@i577A0DC7.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:45:19 -!- UnwashedMeme [n=nathan@216.155.97.1] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:45:59 drewc: we only use the implicit dispatch parameter part of it. but that comes very handy for certain tasks... 20:46:28 i used to play with these things before in Slate though. it had a least and a most significant implicit argument, one called subject and the other called context. 20:47:29 attila_lendvai: interesting, i've never looked at slate. 20:49:11 drewc: in short: a lisp (including full macros) with smalltalk syntax and inherently built on multiple dispatch. it's mostly abandoned by now, probably because it didn't bring enough extra coolness to be picked up... 20:49:12 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:49:53 attila_lendvai: Interesting, I think Brian refers to Slate as a Smalltalk with some Lisp features ;) 20:50:58 well, half empty, or half full? who cares... :) 20:51:16 attila_lendvai: Yeah, that's my point really ... just perspective. 20:51:57 I've never used it myself, beyond watching him give a few demos. 20:52:50 attila_lendvai: I must say I am a little startled about the idea behind intentsoft... except doubting the project is possible. May I ask why you quit? 20:54:32 drewc: Do you think ContextL obviates the MVC pattern? The first paper I read seemed to make that claim, but there was no mention of it in a more recent paper. 20:54:59 ahaas: indeed i think it does, at least the way i use it. 20:55:12 meingbg: in short: i was startled with the ideas, but got fed up with the implementation constraints. i was also missing some life experience about how to relate to a rich boss (i was not fighting my space and by time got fed up due to this and the technical disappointment) 20:55:52 -!- doxtor [i=phytovor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:56:29 ahaas: i think generic functions and multiple dispatch eliminate the controller, and i use contextl to eliminate (or rather extrapolate) the view. 20:57:23 drewc: The only problem I see is that I recycle a lot of code from project to project and the granularity of MVC makes that clean and simple. I'm afraid that with ContextL, I would either have monolithic classes/files, or I would have to cherry pick from that class/file. 20:58:49 attila_lendvai: I see. Is it too quick a conclusion that you perhaps needed a few dozen programmers you couldn't find to do what cannot be planned in a short time frame by one person and not at all by too many people? 20:59:30 i think that #fonc stuff at http://vpri.org/ is more interesting, although i haven't seen the details yet 21:00:01 ahaas: contextl allows a lot more flexibility in your class hierarchy, and actually allows more granularity, as i see it. Most behavior is defined in the generic functions and their interaction with layers, or mixins that define behavior in layers. 21:00:32 meingbg: it was only about 6 of us at that time i was there, but they never grew above 15 21:00:38 drewc: Ah, that makes sense. I may have jumped the gun with assuming how it would be used. 21:01:07 Other than MVC, how do you guys tend to use ContextL? I've wanted to play with it, but haven't figured out where it fits into things. 21:01:39 I got excited when I read in the last paper about using ContextL to manage user priveleges. 21:02:17 ahaas: link or it didn't happen 21:02:32 meingbg: the things intentsoft wants to achieve are not at all sci-fi... you just need the right perspective, the rest is not rocket science imho. http://tunes.org has some ideas in that direction (although even less output than intentsoft... :) 21:02:40 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["*poof*"] 21:02:51 sellout: http://www.jot.fm/issues/issue_2008_03/article4/ 21:03:00 Danke 21:03:13 sellout: No problem. I found that link here: http://p-cos.net/ 21:03:24 x6j8x [n=x6j8x@77.21.43.186] has joined #lisp 21:03:36 sellout: i've started to use it quite a bit. for example i'm playing with a caching layer in my o/r map. I inject a layered method somewhere into my existing protocol, and put all the behavior in a layer which i can disable. 21:03:46 *attila_lendvai* needs to leave 21:04:08 attila_lendvai: cheers 21:04:09 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@30.pool85-49-182.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:04:09 H4ns2 [n=hans@p57A0D21D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:14 cu guys 21:04:54 sellout: saves a lot of (when *cache-objects* ...) mess that is hard to factor out. 21:06:17 -!- H4ns [n=Hans@p57BB9AB4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 21:06:20 -!- H4ns2 is now known as H4ns 21:06:36 H4ns2 [n=Hans@p57BB9AB4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:06:38 really any time i want a behaviour that is not a property of an existing class, i'll just 'inject' a layered method. 21:08:35 drewc pasted "example of 'injecting' behavior via layers." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/69535 21:09:03 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:09:16 stassats [n=stassats@ppp78-37-19-164.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 21:10:04 I'm hoping to use it on this level building backend for a game. I want to provide URLs for levels. If the context is coming from the game, then send the level data. If it's coming from a browser, then show the game with that level. If it's coming from an authorized user, enable editing. 21:11:07 ahaas: i'd generally not vary responses to GET requests depending on (session) context as that often makes caching hard or impossible 21:11:40 H4ns: That is a good point. 21:11:48 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:13:55 lispm [n=joswig@e177147236.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:14:17 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:35 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:15:06 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:15:24 -!- vy [n=user@88.231.235.151] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:15:41 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:17:07 -!- H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0DC82.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:18:04 Ok. That idea is no good. 21:20:57 -!- elurin [n=user@81.213.203.109] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:21:07 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-133-170-239.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:21:50 rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 21:22:38 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@30.pool85-49-182.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 21:23:07 -!- antichris2 [n=chris@p5B16B089.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:25:34 -!- holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:27:30 *rpg* apologizes in advance for dumb question... 21:28:14 When I use SLIME and find definition, if there are multiple definitions (e.g., generic functions), I get a list of definitions in a small xref buffer. Question: can I somehow activate those choices and jump to them? 21:28:33 *rpg* is mostly an ELI user... 21:29:03 -!- vixey [n=witch@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:29:20 -!- nowhere_man [i=pierre@pthierry.pck.nerim.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:29:20 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:29:24 -!- sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [] 21:30:37 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:30:45 rpg: put cursor on one, hit RET or SPC 21:30:57 kidd [n=kidd@167.Red-79-147-12.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:17 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has quit [No route to host] 21:34:21 kreuter: I took your rsync example from the web page makefile and turned it into a "make update SFNETUSER=foo" target 21:34:25 seems to work fine 21:34:44 -!- manuel__ is now known as psil 21:34:46 *chandler* updates the NetBSD/x86 binary 21:36:58 -!- bohanlon` is now known as bohanlon 21:39:31 vixey [n=witch@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:48:00 -!- acrid [n=mckay@reverse.control4.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:49:48 elurin [n=user@81.213.203.109] has joined #lisp 21:51:09 silenius [n=jl@dslb-088-073-076-132.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:13 Xach, how ofeten do you need to modify --dynamic-space-size/--control-stack-size, regarding your s-l-a-d patch? 21:54:24 (or perhaps, in what situations) 21:54:42 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:53 antgreen [n=green@nat/redhat/x-281f8c6422c69bf4] has joined #lisp 21:55:07 stassats [n=stassats@ppp78-37-19-164.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 21:55:08 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:29 -!- vixey [n=witch@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:55:47 bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has joined #lisp 21:56:59 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:57:06 -!- bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has quit [Client Quit] 21:58:08 -!- willb2 [n=wibenton@wireless119.cs.wisc.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:01:15 xjrn [n=jim@c-69-181-213-99.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:07 vixey [n=witch@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:02:55 bilberth [n=bilberth@c197040.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #lisp 22:05:54 -!- njsg [n=njsg@unaffiliated/njsg] has quit ["gone"] 22:10:17 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:11:12 H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0D21D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:28 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0D21D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:14:53 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:16:14 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 22:20:41 -!- ecraven [n=nex@plc31-103.linzag.net] has quit ["bbl"] 22:20:55 aooaoeu [n=a@c-6470e155.185-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 22:21:02 -!- aooaoeu is now known as Eleanore 22:22:16 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:25:16 -!- NoorDextor [n=NoorDext@unaffiliated/noordextor] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:25:47 -!- konr`` [n=user@201.82.228.185] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:25:54 ehu, V-ille, e271, anyone.. does ABCL ever *have* to make Bignums for values w/in the fixnum range? 22:26:20 dmiles_afk: not that I know of. 22:26:38 Why would it *have* to? 22:26:52 I see no reason; I gather from your phrasing that it does. 22:26:57 for some ansi compatabilty i was thinking 22:27:02 V-ille: to pass to bignum arithmetic functions. 22:27:22 pkhuong: Thanks. This is definitely not my forte. 22:27:35 kleppari_ [n=spa@nat1-krokhals.netberg.is] has joined #lisp 22:27:45 that's just one possible reason. I don't have a clue. 22:27:48 by default primivtive longs become Bignums even when in Fixnum range.. so i am trying an experment making the faxctories return Fixnums when it can 22:28:18 pkhuong, yeah thats why i asked.. if there is legitimate reasons for example someone needed to make a Bignum from say zero 22:29:17 seelenquell_ [n=seelenqu@pD9E46234.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:18 dmiles_afk: well, maybe we should make it so that it isn't (required, that is) 22:30:15 ehu, yeah .. thats what i am trying.. but figured i get sa fast-failure in irc if there was some known reason you needed small bignums 22:31:05 yeah 22:32:19 Well, if you do it, make a test case that covers enough range/cases, then it should be quite safe. 22:32:21 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:32:24 -!- geekux [n=geekux@217.5.184.10] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:33:06 (defun java-long-type-p (compiler-type) ...) in compiler types .. giving that one a feel 22:34:34 -!- mye [n=mye@dslc-082-082-087-242.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [] 22:34:42 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:55 ``Erik__ [i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:39:15 tic: it's more about giving full control over the command line to an application. 22:39:15 -!- ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:39:35 tic: that's a way to tell sbcl's runtime "here are the options, no need to look for any others" 22:39:39 -!- ``Erik__ is now known as ``Erik_ 22:40:00 Xach, OK. 22:40:05 -!- Maghnus [n=Maghnus@68-190-147-184.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:40:51 dfox_ [n=dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 22:41:26 -!- kleppari [n=spa@nat1-krokhals.netberg.is] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:42:00 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:42:02 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:42:04 -!- dfox [n=dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:43:25 -!- seelenquell__ [n=seelenqu@pD9E43D10.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:43:38 qbg [n=qbg@rn084084.morris.umn.edu] has joined #lisp 22:44:12 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:44:41 -!- REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:47:19 kreuter: I'm here now. 22:48:30 rpg: In a lisp buffer, C-M-. will bring you to the next definition 22:49:49 -!- neurogeek_ [n=neurogee@201.208.73.206] has quit [Client Quit] 22:54:00 -!- edon [n=edon@albalug/edon] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:54:12 disumu [n=disumu@p57A26018.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:55:07 nurv101` [n=askmefor@bl10-158-83.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 23:00:19 -!- disumu [n=disumu@p57A26018.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:01:48 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:01:55 -!- nurv101 [n=askmefor@bl10-158-83.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:01:57 -!- silenius [n=jl@dslb-088-073-076-132.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:02:08 -!- vixey [n=witch@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:02:49 lemonodor [n=lemonodo@66.43.112.62] has joined #lisp 23:04:52 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:06:13 -!- qbg [n=qbg@rn084084.morris.umn.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:07:30 Maghnus [n=Maghnus@68-190-147-184.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:07:53 -!- Mr_SpOOn [n=Mr_SpOOn@89-97-102-218.ip17.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:08:03 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 23:14:22 -!- _deepfire [n=deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:14:39 *rvirding* says goodnight everyone 23:14:44 -!- rvirding [n=chatzill@h235n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092417]"] 23:15:01 hippee-lee [n=hippee-l@71-208-71-7.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:16:23 -!- ehu [i=52aa21ad@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-373ee0e279c0ff43] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 23:20:12 -!- vcgomes is now known as vcgomes[away] 23:25:03 -!- tst___ [n=Tim@p4FD2BC95.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 23:32:00 -!- ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:33:50 ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:34:37 fusss [n=chatzill@pool-72-66-40-106.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:07 greetings! anybody got S-XML-RPC working with SBCL on Linux? 23:35:42 I can fire up the server but I can't invoke messages, either from the host or other boxes in the LAN 23:36:17 on the same Lisp image, execute-xml-rpc-call returns the desired result 23:36:43 but S-XML-RPC can't seem to do it on its own, via the *XML-RPC-CALL-HOOK* 23:39:51 sven? rudi? 23:40:03 -!- jao [n=user@186.Red-81-32-186.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:40:05 sven van c10e does not visit here 23:40:25 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@217.202.72.63] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:40:43 i don't know about s-xml-rpc, but some of the other s-* libraries are a bit unportable 23:41:57 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@55.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 23:42:44 oh 23:43:17 don't take my word on it, though. sven is usually very responsive to email. 23:43:35 fusss pasted "does this work for you s-xml-rpc?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/69537 23:44:16 both Hunchentoot and S-XML-RPC have a STOP-SERVER function :-S 23:45:01 s-xml-rpc's stop-server takes a string argument, but gives a "destructuring" error, giving the illusion it's a list 23:45:16 really funny stuff 23:45:22 -!- hippee-lee [n=hippee-l@71-208-71-7.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:46:08 btw Xach, even javascript libraries have on the fly flash generation, i think we're the last ones to implement one :-P 23:46:24 *fusss* just noticed Dojo's runtime flash stuff 23:46:29 really? neat. 23:46:35 yeah 23:46:52 where is that documented? 23:47:03 the test cases generate a bouncy little button that has drag and drop and some good physics 23:47:17 the source code test-cases, give me a sec 23:48:53 dojo-release-1.1.1/dojox/av/tests/flash.html 23:48:58 search for those strings 23:49:11 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-211-178.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:49:12 it's in the Dojox sub-library 23:49:14 i don't have dojo 23:49:19 is it online? 23:49:33 ths_ [n=ths@p54A46086.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:07 here http://download.dojotoolkit.org/release-1.1b1/dojo-release-1.1b1/dojox/av/tests/flash.html 23:51:17 go down the directory tree and look at all the "tests" dirs, really cool stuff 23:51:34 too bad it's 8 megabytes and constantly crashing :-P 23:52:36 dialtone [n=dialtone@208-78-102-169.slicehost.net] has joined #lisp 23:55:36 like generating executables with lisp, generating movies is 1/nth the battle. the other fraction of the battle is actually making something worth a damn. 23:56:06 i have been scrambling for an idea for how long now? 23:56:26 and the slime motivation chants don't help the situation :-S 23:56:53 i just need to focus on what matters i guess 23:57:12 *fusss* spent all yesterday porting sb-aclrepl to Corman. sheesh! 23:58:02 that can't possibly be cost effective 23:58:54 and it sucked 23:59:28 all i got was a repl with the package name and cheap history .. nothing you couldn't get with ilisp 23:59:56 don't knock ilisp