00:02:09 What's new? 00:05:10 i sold some lisp software without trying especialy hard 00:05:29 and someone else wants to buy it (but hasn't written back after getting a quote, so that's probably a bust) 00:05:58 Xach, what was it? 00:06:03 Jasko: roflbot backend 00:06:08 sabetts [n=sabetts@S0106000a95700fd8.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:06:15 nifty 00:06:41 was that recent? I feel like I heard about this some time ago 00:06:49 last week 00:07:34 What did this software do? 00:07:35 yeah, that would be recent. Curse my deja vu! 00:07:56 Xach: Pretty cool! 00:08:00 liemaj2 [n=e@CPE001e9002348e-CM001225d8ab30.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 00:08:45 -!- lesceil [n=lesceil@gateway.penguincomputing.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:08:52 mach: renders text to pngs, lets you interactively place them, merges them into a single photo 00:09:04 mach: http://wigflip.com/roflbot/ is it 00:09:12 I'll take a look 00:09:41 O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-34-37.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 00:12:36 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-165-198.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 00:12:42 -!- Hun [n=Hun@82.149.80.128] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:12:51 rtoym: the recent boston lisp meeting was pretty cool. nice to be in an audience of 60+ enthusiastic lispers at a great presentation. 00:14:19 -!- mach [n=mach@unaffiliated/mach] has quit [" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- In tests, 0x09 out of 0x0A l33t h4x0rz prefer it :)"] 00:14:53 blakkino [n=BLaCk@host-84-221-80-80.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 00:15:03 -!- Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:15:23 *rvirding* says i must sleep now, good night all 00:15:28 -!- rvirding [n=chatzill@h235n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 00:16:12 -!- O_4_ [n=souchan@ip-118-90-51-153.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:18:53 trebor pasted "buffer-match-via-regexp" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/67762 00:19:29 sorry, wrong channel.... 00:19:52 Xach: Sounds cool. OOPSLA is just 8 hours away from me. Not sure if I can go. 00:20:32 rtoym: do it 00:21:00 -!- timor101 [n=icke@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit ["Verlassend"] 00:22:21 teilzeitstudent_ [n=teilzeit@dslb-082-083-032-159.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 00:24:19 wow, mjd is talking at OOPSLA 00:24:43 i did not know that he went to non-perl conferences 00:26:20 sadly, his talk is the only one that doesn't sound like total BS 00:27:11 Liempt [n=Bevinvan@XPLR-TS-10-VAN-67-201-133-74.barrettxplore.com] has joined #lisp 00:27:46 -!- rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:29:46 -!- salex [n=user@216.80.143.240] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:31:45 I hope somebody will be kind enough to record and post video of the Lisp talks at OOPSLA 00:32:06 borism [n=boris@195-50-197-169-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 00:32:24 I'd like to go, but I won't be able to; plus it's kinda expensive. 00:34:51 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 00:35:13 rread [n=rread@192.18.41.196] has joined #lisp 00:35:30 EtFb [n=etfb@mail.hatrix.com] has joined #lisp 00:38:51 -!- borism_ [n=boris@195-50-200-56-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 00:39:40 -!- Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:39:51 Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has joined #lisp 00:40:57 ths_ [n=ths@X5cc0.x.pppool.de] has joined #lisp 00:41:29 gonzojive [n=red@rescomp-08-102861.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 00:42:51 -!- teilzeitstudent [n=teilzeit@dslb-082-083-048-127.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:43:55 -!- liemaj2 [n=e@CPE001e9002348e-CM001225d8ab30.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:45:25 *persi* wishes the lispNYC meetings were as cool. 00:46:14 liemaj2 [n=e@CPE001e9002348e-CM001225d8ab30.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 00:46:19 persi: Rahul commutes to the Boston ones. 00:47:49 how's the turnout at lispNYC? 00:51:17 -!- Athas` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:52:01 cemerick [n=la_mer@71.192.208.28] has joined #lisp 00:52:21 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:54:34 -!- sellout [n=greg@pool-68-160-6-164.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 00:57:05 -!- ths [n=ths@X74a8.x.pppool.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:57:24 -!- felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [Client Quit] 00:58:08 hefner: no presentations for a while. last time was about 8 around a table at a bar. 00:58:20 sellout: thanks for the info! 00:58:34 i'm too tired to hack 00:59:03 -!- EtFb [n=etfb@mail.hatrix.com] has quit ["KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/"] 01:00:48 hmm, sounds awful 01:01:14 mikezor_ [n=mikael@83.226.136.163] has joined #lisp 01:01:38 -!- trebor_home [n=trebor@dslb-084-058-231-080.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:01:39 Xach: Would be cool to go to OOPSLA. But I'm almost outta vacation time, so swinging it would be pretty hard. 01:01:46 Maybe I'm just not with it, but there's not a lot of the OOPSLA program that seems interesting to me. I registered for one day at the conference so that I could attend the Lisp day. 01:02:23 If I go, it's for the lisp50 day. 01:02:57 *H4ns* seriously considers it, too. although nashville is rather remote and it will be a painful trip :/ 01:03:09 alexsuraci [n=alex@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:15 but then, i'm not sure if i will make the Lisp100 :/ 01:03:51 hahaha 01:04:05 *nowhereman* is looking at a Lisp program that has been ported to C 01:04:46 it's almost strange to see meaningful names used for functions and variables 01:05:03 dbbddbdb_ [n=dbbddbdb@77.41.74.86] has joined #lisp 01:05:28 Hi! Is there a procedure to destructively update N-th element of a list? 01:05:48 nowhereman: Garnet was ported to C I think. It was called Amulet, then. 01:06:10 H4ns: Where are you? BTW, trac appears to be dead again. 01:06:39 rtoym: in this case, it's Autoclass 01:07:01 rtoym: i'm in boston currently, but next week i'll be back home in berlin. i'll kick trac in a minute 01:07:15 i could go to oopsla if I took it without pay and risked my job in the process :| 01:07:31 H4ns: Oh. That would be a painful trip. 01:07:40 dbbddbdb_: you can use SETF with NTH. 01:07:47 avida [n=amani@beigetower/jaene] has joined #lisp 01:07:53 *rtoym* hasn't forgotten about the compiler bug H4ns mentioned. 01:08:20 rtoym: the greatest pain would be from nashville to boston as i would have to call it a work trip, and making that connection in one night is horrors. 01:08:30 rtoym: no worries :) 01:08:50 rtoym: trac is back up, you can now look at this and the other bugs! 01:09:42 H4ns: Heh. Thanks. 01:09:58 rtoym: it will propably crash again soon. i'm very much looking forward to the move of common-lisp.net to the new machine, both because i hope it is more stable and because i will be motivated to make it automatically restart there. 01:10:28 What's causing it to crash now? Trac used to be quite stable. 01:10:42 rtoym: i don't know, the whole installation is a little screwy 01:11:01 rtoym: i guess it is some "out of memory" condition that is not handled gracefully by tracd. 01:11:01 When is the move planned? Will there be more disk space? Donations needed? 01:11:07 -!- cemerick [n=la_mer@71.192.208.28] has quit [] 01:11:35 rtoym: the new system is up, but drewc has some issues with xen that he has not yet fully nailed down. i think no donations are needed are present. 01:11:53 (although i somehow feel that a real machine instead of a virtual one would be nicer) 01:11:57 H4ns: BTW, is unicode cmucl working ok for you? 01:13:03 i could not thoroughly test yet, but it looks very promising. we're planning a deployment next week and i'll give it another try then. 01:13:11 another try as in "a real workout" 01:14:36 No rush. But let me know what ever issues you find. 01:18:12 -!- mikezor [n=mikael@c-a388e253.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:19:15 will do (and boot trac if needed) :) 01:20:34 -!- Zhivago [n=Zhivago@80.81.68.18] has quit ["away"] 01:21:24 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-240-8.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 01:23:04 Zhivago [n=Zhivago@80.81.68.18] has joined #lisp 01:23:14 -!- lemonodor [n=lemonodo@66.43.112.62] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:28:41 willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #lisp 01:29:32 papermachine [n=ahoman@61.152.106.169] has joined #lisp 01:34:50 tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:35:22 -!- Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:35:42 Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has joined #lisp 01:39:32 JustWhie 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quit [Nick collision from services.] 05:53:06 morning. 05:53:09 -!- lemoine1 is now known as lemoinem 05:54:06 lemoinem1 [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 05:54:55 -!- lemoinem1 [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 05:57:19 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-205-169-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 05:58:14 -!- binarycodes [n=Arch@59.93.255.110] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:00:20 good morning 06:00:31 -!- bhall [n=bhall@unaffiliated/bhall] has left #lisp 06:04:13 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-197-169-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 06:06:36 Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has joined #lisp 06:09:09 -!- xjrn [n=jim@c-69-181-213-99.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:10:02 Fufie [n=punchbal@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 06:11:43 ruediger [n=the-rued@chello062178150152.7.14.univie.teleweb.at] has joined #lisp 06:13:20 lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-15-172.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:13:44 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@chello062178150152.7.14.univie.teleweb.at] has quit [Client Quit] 06:14:56 gdmfsob [n=gdmfsob@dm.sonopia.com] has joined #lisp 06:17:55 O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-34-37.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:19:10 hello mvilleneuve 06:19:26 hello tic 06:20:50 aquateen [n=chris@c-71-231-10-116.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:23:50 yhara [n=yhara@raichu.netlab.jp] has joined #lisp 06:30:42 What's the most space-efficient structure for storing 10s of MB of data, with O(1) lookup? 06:31:34 bighouse [n=bighouse@modemcable012.160-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 06:33:04 tic: It depends on what you use to look it up. A key? An index? 06:33:44 Sorry, forgot to say I'm storing bytes, and want to lookup by index. I.e. an emulation of RAM. 06:34:00 a vector of bytes. 06:34:15 good, thanks. 06:34:20 do you expect it to be full of 0s? Do you think you'll want to access the data linearly? (etc) 06:34:28 (wasn't sure if there could be a more efficient way) 06:34:34 Is space an issue at all? 10s of MB isn't actually large. 06:34:51 well, I'd prefer being able to run it on my computer. 06:35:17 My supervisor and I came to the conclusion that it'd be better if I prototyped my memory allocator in Lisp. 06:35:35 -!- ths_ [n=ths@X5cc0.x.pppool.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:35:56 tic: my laptop has a couple *thousands* of MB of RAM. 06:36:55 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 06:37:15 pkhuong, so does mine! point being? :) I'm not talking super-optimized, just not wasteful. For example if I want to emulate more RAM, I want that to be possible on my computer. 06:37:32 but I guess vectors have only a constant overhead, right? 06:37:35 tic: the point being that `10s of MB' doesn't matter. 06:37:42 pkhuong, so say 100s of mb. 06:38:30 -!- dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:39:30 tic: so why do you worry about space efficiency? In any case, in the general case, it's hard to beat raw RAM to emulate raw RAM. 06:40:14 pkhuong, what'd be the better way than a byte-vector, if I want to do it in Lisp? 06:40:57 -!- aquateen [n=chris@c-71-231-10-116.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 06:41:52 tic: none, most probably. It's also a bit early to worry about using anything but a vector to look values up by index when you only have `10s of MB' of data. 06:42:15 pkhuong, a byte-vector is a perfectly fine solution. :) 06:42:16 mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-87-78-4-246.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 06:42:22 (I'm happy with that answer) 06:44:18 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-68-238-4-243.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 06:44:44 bpr [n=user@cpe-72-226-72-222.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:47:57 -!- turjo [n=fhs@pool-71-183-1-177.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:50:20 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.248.11] has joined #lisp 06:51:06 -!- O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-34-37.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [] 06:51:16 reaver__ [n=reaver@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 06:53:44 For a memory allocator, you don't need to emulate each bit of the memory. Just each block. 06:55:04 By the same token, the time complexity of the emulator doesn't need to be homothetic to the emulated time. Just keep a virtual clock to measure the time complexity of the allocator. 06:56:26 -!- bpr [n=user@cpe-72-226-72-222.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 06:59:17 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit ["leaving"] 07:01:34 dtosnagglj [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 07:04:32 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:08:02 -!- dtosnagglj is now known as dto1138 07:11:47 O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-34-37.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:12:36 Jabberwockey [n=jens@dslb-082-083-076-253.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:14:46 xjrn [n=jim@c-69-181-213-99.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:15:47 -!- dto1138 [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:16:03 pjb, I do need to emulate a large array of bytes, though. But that's perfectly fine. 07:16:22 pjb, and yes, the time efficiency is mostly about not wanting to wait forever in wall-clock time. 07:18:18 dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 07:19:58 -!- gonzojive [n=red@rescomp-08-102861.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 07:23:43 weirdo [i=sthalik@c134-115.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 07:26:13 jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 07:31:03 -!- mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-87-78-4-246.netcologne.de] has quit [] 07:31:32 -!- dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:34:43 VityokOrgUa [n=user@193.109.118.130] has joined #lisp 07:35:50 good morning 07:40:22 kiuma [n=kiuma@83-103-78-224.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:40:35 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:40:53 morning lispers 07:43:33 hello spiaggia 07:44:21 -!- kuwabara [n=Kuwabara@84.14.121.138] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 2.0.0.12/2008020710]"] 07:50:55 -!- thom_logn [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:53:48 eevar2 [n=jalla@106.80-203-27.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 07:55:06 -!- qebab [n=finnrobi@eros.orakel.ntnu.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:55:26 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-133-170-239.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 07:56:30 qebab [i=finnrobi@gaupe.stud.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 07:59:56 qeb`away [i=finnrobi@gaupe.stud.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 07:59:58 -!- qeb`away [i=finnrobi@gaupe.stud.ntnu.no] has quit [Client Quit] 08:00:45 mejja [n=user@c-7d2472d5.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 08:03:19 V-ille, if i change HashTable.put(LispObject,LispObject)Void to HashTable.put(LispObject,LispObject)LispObject .. i get a jvm stack mismatch.. would you know how to repair that? 08:04:09 (emit-invokevirtual +lisp-hash-table-class+ "put" (lisp-object-arg-types 2) nil))) -> (emit-invokevirtual +lisp-hash-table-class+ "put" (lisp-object-arg-types 2) +lisp-object-class+))) 08:04:21 is what causes it 08:04:44 i was going to make HashTable also implment Map 08:07:37 phil695 [n=phil695@malvern.inf.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 08:08:16 -!- phil695 [n=phil695@malvern.inf.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 08:09:27 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 08:10:34 -!- Cryovat [i=isis@akuma.no] has quit ["ZNC by prozac - http://znc.sourceforge.net"] 08:12:15 mikesch [n=axel@tmo-126-1.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #lisp 08:13:55 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 08:14:47 -!- JustWhie [n=chatzill@c-71-60-93-1.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:16:36 mikesch_ [n=axel@tmo-118-1.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #lisp 08:19:32 x6j8x [n=x6j8x@tmo-119-31.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #lisp 08:22:15 marcoecc [n=me@dial81-135-227-200.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #lisp 08:31:24 -!- mikesch [n=axel@tmo-126-1.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:32:13 pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 08:44:15 mikesch [n=axel@static-87-79-66-80.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:49:42 tic: the question is whether you need the memory property of all the bits. What I'm assuming is that to implement a memory manager, you only need to keep a very sparse vector. I would try as a first approximation to use a hash-table. Otherwise, you could just implement a simulated memory model corresponding to the primitives the memory manager uses wrt the memory. Then time complexity may even be better than O(processedSize), it 08:49:43 could be O(1). 08:50:26 It won't be very sparse in practice, actually. But yes, in theory it's a good idea. 08:50:38 -!- mikesch_ [n=axel@tmo-118-1.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:51:55 lemonodor_ [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-15-172.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:51:55 -!- lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-15-172.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:54:41 -!- mikesch [n=axel@static-87-79-66-80.netcologne.de] has quit [] 08:54:53 mikesch [n=axel@static-87-79-66-80.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:57:05 noj [i=jon@orm.abc.se] has joined #lisp 08:57:23 -!- noj [i=jon@orm.abc.se] has left #lisp 09:00:26 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:00:31 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 09:08:40 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-147-03.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:11:48 *Xach* is sad there was no sbcl yesterday 09:15:13 matley 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09:53:19 -!- l_a_m_ [n=lam@194.51.71.190] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 09:54:45 user__ [n=user@p54923971.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:57:02 chris2 [n=chris@p5B16B47F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:00:54 user pasted " " at http://paste.lisp.org/display/67773 10:01:04 how could you write: (loop for n from 0 to $var-let-bound do)? 10:01:21 l_a_m [n=lam@194.51.71.190] has joined #lisp 10:02:57 <_3b> user__: did you try it? 10:03:44 _3b: the macro expansion signals an error (slime) 10:04:33 <_3b> lisppaste what you tried and the error 10:04:37 impulse32 [n=impulse@CPE001195396746-CM001ac3167610.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 10:05:14 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-133-170-239.catv.broadband.hu] has quit ["..."] 10:05:22 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-133-170-239.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 10:07:01 user__: instead of (loop for ... to (- stuff 1)...) you can do (loop for ... below stuff ...) 10:07:04 _3b: works, sorry 10:07:20 spiaggia: ok, thanks 10:07:49 also, LENGTH takes the fill pointer into account 10:08:21 -!- O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-34-37.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Come alive!"] 10:09:44 so (loop for n from 0 below (length a) ...) would probably be the most idiomatic way of doing it. 10:10:19 unless you just want to access the elements, in which case (loop for element across a ...) would be better. 10:11:40 spiaggia: actually i have two loops and can use both constructs ;-) 10:15:04 -!- bryteise [n=bryteise@c-76-115-234-122.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:15:35 bryteise [n=bryteise@c-76-115-234-122.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:19:12 stassats` [n=stassats@ppp78-37-144-99.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 10:22:31 jazen [n=blah@77.20.240.183] has joined #lisp 10:24:39 -!- user__ [n=user@p54923971.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 10:29:44 bpr [n=user@cpe-72-226-72-222.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:35:18 yeoh 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[n=user@laptop-147-210-128-154.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 12:13:45 -!- zpiro_ [n=oks@27.85-200-158.bkkb.no] has quit [Client Quit] 12:13:51 zpiro_ [i=osm@27.85-200-158.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 12:14:07 ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has joined #lisp 12:14:26 tst__ [n=Tim@p4FD2D885.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:14:43 -!- dbbddbdb [n=dbbddbdb@77.41.74.86] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:16:04 name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has joined #lisp 12:18:32 jmbr [n=jmbr@87.223.199.253] has joined #lisp 12:20:03 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@89-139-89-250.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 12:20:44 binghe [n=binghe@60.12.227.4] has joined #lisp 12:21:05 oudeis [n=oudeis@89-139-89-250.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 12:23:24 -!- gzip4 [n=xxx@78.108.73.250] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:25:27 -!- blitz_ [n=blitz@89-186-143-184.dynamic.primacom.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:26:31 -!- zpiro [n=oks@27.85-200-158.bkkb.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:28:45 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@212.88.117.162] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:30:34 timor [n=icke@w0477.dip.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 12:30:45 -!- vcgomes[away] is now known as vcgomes 12:32:40 -!- cods [n=cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has quit ["whoops"] 12:33:11 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 12:40:52 -!- timor [n=icke@w0477.dip.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:43:27 timor [n=icke@w0477.dip.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 12:47:54 Not a lot of activity here today. 12:48:39 we're busy hacking lisp 12:52:28 indeed 12:52:52 I wonder if somoeone will see patches I've posted to the clsql ml one day, the projet seems inactive 12:53:03 ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 12:53:48 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-87-85-73.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 12:54:04 hmm can perhas somebody who uses stumpwm take a look at my little problem in #stumpwm? seems nobody there is active... 12:54:36 bpr [n=user@cpe-72-226-72-222.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:55:20 x6j8x_ [n=x6j8x@tmo-115-1.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #lisp 12:56:10 ManateeLazyCat [n=Andy@222.212.135.150] has joined #lisp 12:56:18 <_8david> plage: our german delegation is probably in the weekend already 12:56:32 kiuma: why don't you take over the project? 12:57:17 _8david: I couldn't undertand that. 12:58:52 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-147-03.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Connection timed out] 12:59:58 plage, I could when I'll finish CLAW 13:00:03 <_8david> plage: tomorrow is a holiday here, so a sizeable part of the channel is probably in an extended 4-day-weekend rather than on #lisp 13:00:15 ah, OK. 13:00:45 some for the Israeli part of channel, I guess 13:00:47 *tcr* just woke up from an enduring trip to the Wies'n. 13:01:14 cmm: thanks for your review efforts 13:01:16 <_8david> kiuma: I'd guess that one problem with clsql is that few open source projects depend on it. And commercial users tend to fork everything into a private thirdparty directory and then forget about it. 13:01:54 Xach: one of those days when I regret not living close to Boston :) 13:04:05 _8david, IMHO clsql has good potentialities, I hope to release soon some open web apps that depend on it, so to lighten its capabilities, maybe it should be nice to create a cms based on CLAW + clsql 13:04:11 alec [n=aberryma@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:04:29 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 13:07:36 blitz_ [n=blitz@141.76.6.33] has joined #lisp 13:08:37 -!- x6j8x [n=x6j8x@tmo-119-31.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:08:59 pixel5 [n=pixel@copei.de] has joined #lisp 13:09:55 *attila_lendvai* had various headaches with clsql 13:09:57 dbbddbdb [n=dbbddbdb@77.41.74.86] has joined #lisp 13:10:02 rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 13:10:45 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.108.19] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:11:39 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 13:12:58 <_8david> attila_lendvai: for example? 13:13:46 _8david: for example the confused database/connection/transaction abstractions it has 13:14:11 <_8david> okay. Just curious, because I'm not a clsql fan either, but I never submitted any changes to fix it. 13:14:25 <_8david> (And fixing it would also break Common SQL compatibility, wouldn't it?) 13:14:54 <_8david> I found the connection pooling useless for my purposes (and also easy to misuse), so I ripped that out. Result set handling wasn't to my liking either. 13:18:59 -!- kij [n=user@pc.tv2.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:27:51 antgreen [n=green@localhostlocaldomain.wbb.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 13:28:32 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-147-03.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:32:04 cods [n=cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has joined #lisp 13:33:58 hi cods! 13:34:51 ugh! somehow l1sp.org is the #1 hit for "cffi manual" 13:35:09 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@83-103-78-224.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:35:56 planet.sbcl.org seems out of sync again. 13:36:19 also, morning, #lisp. 13:36:39 hello kreuter 13:37:06 kreuter: sorry. 13:37:12 is it now more in line with what you expected? 13:37:25 yessir! thanks. 13:37:47 *Xach* needs to fix that problem with newscluster 13:38:01 kiuma [n=kiuma@83-103-78-224.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:38:05 I got some weird error output doing a CVS commit last night, and didn't know if that meant I'd horribly broken something 13:38:16 -!- tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:38:19 kreuter: is today going to be sbcl release day? 13:38:23 yeah 13:38:26 *Xach* is anxious to rework, resubmit his patch 13:38:29 -!- dnm [n=dnm@c-68-49-46-251.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 13:38:31 in mere minutes, in fact! 13:38:50 *Xach* quivers with excitement 13:39:00 Hi Xach, and everyone! 13:39:03 *kreuter* coughs with cold. 13:39:23 *Xach* probably played Typhoid Xach at the lisp meeting and diseased everyone 13:39:37 I'm blaming somebody at ITA. 13:39:52 -!- x6j8x_ [n=x6j8x@tmo-115-1.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:39:57 Hey guys, who knows the Administrator of common-lisp.net? 13:40:18 binghe: I know him. He is drewc! There are others too. 13:41:02 binghe: i can help, but i'll be offline for 30 minutes now. send email or talk to me again when i return 13:41:07 -!- H4ns [n=hans@72-255-90-109.client.stsn.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:41:28 Xach, thanks! Erik (usocket author) sent a mail to ask for my svn commit access on Sep 24, but never got a reply. 13:42:29 H4ns, can you let me (ctian) be a member of usocket project, so that I can commit code into it? 13:42:52 attila_lendvai, my pc died for VirtualBox, but connection pool need to be be reworked, but for transaction I don't see any significant issue. 13:42:55 <3 usocket 13:43:20 binghe: send email or talk to him again when he returns 13:43:28 <_8david> It would be fantastic if cl.net project owners could add other existing clnet users to their project themselves. 13:44:09 _8david, yes this would be great 13:44:13 Xach, OK, I'll do that 13:44:53 -!- pchrist|univ [n=spirit@gateway.hpc.cs.teiath.gr] has quit [Client Quit] 13:44:54 is anybody here familiar with the infrastructure that sends email when SBCL's CVS gets a commit? I suspect it's broken. 13:45:04 kreuter: i don't think it's worked for a long time. 13:45:08 oh 13:45:23 kreuter: once every, say, 90 days it blurts out a big batch of them. 13:45:32 i don't think anyone relies on it for timely info 13:45:41 well, now it doesn't work in a manner that gives me many lines of "Perl can't find some module waaah." error output. 13:45:57 ah 13:47:16 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@h-188-232.A189.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:47:41 Xach: release is tagged, will upload tarballs in a bit. 13:48:09 deximer [n=deximer@168.203.117.66] has joined #lisp 13:48:20 binarycodes [n=Arch@59.93.243.131] has joined #lisp 13:48:22 kiuma: cl-rdbms supports with-transaction with opens the actual connection to the db on demand. in cl-rdbms *database* is the database specification (type, connection info), *transaction* is the transaction and the underlying db connection is just a slot on *transaction*. i don't remember the details anymore, but clsql has this all mixed up... 13:49:19 kreuter: With the new release, I'd like to ask what I can do to have by reader-related work be integrated. For example, we could perhaps sit down one day, and go through the changes, and I'd be here to answer to any questions. 13:50:17 kreuter: Term will begin for me in two weeks, and my time will be much scarcer then. 13:50:20 okay. can the various changes be broken into separate patches? 13:50:48 kreuter: They're broken into separate branches in my git repository. 13:50:52 oh, good. 13:51:10 timor1 [n=martin@w0477.dip.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 13:51:19 I think we can get them in during the next two weeks. 13:51:50 I think Nikodemus seemed to think that it might be good to offer immutable readtables as a user-visible extension. 13:51:55 -!- matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:52:03 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:40 That'd be cool. I'll publish a draft for a cdr specifying with-readtable-iterator today, or tomorrow. 13:53:12 ok. is with-readtable-iterator part of the changeset? 13:53:50 It's orthogonal to the reader changes, and sits in its own branch. 13:53:55 plutonas [n=plutonas@h-188-232.A189.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 13:54:14 fair 'nuff. 13:55:42 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@h-188-232.A189.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:58:41 -!- besiria [n=user@webspirs.uom.gr] has quit [Connection timed out] 14:01:17 davazp [n=user@77.Red-83-54-164.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:48 matimago [n=user@LPuteaux-151-43-13-170.w217-128.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:02:54 -!- matimago [n=user@LPuteaux-151-43-13-170.w217-128.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:04:26 H4ns [n=hans@c-71-232-4-167.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:34 can anyone tell me how I use #'profile? I did (profile #'func) and then called (func huge-input), how do I get the results now? or am I entirely on the wrong track? 14:07:00 qebab: it depends on the implementation. PROFILE is not standard. which implementation are you using? 14:07:11 ah 14:07:13 sbcl 14:07:30 binghe: please send email with your request to rt@new.common-lisp.net to have it be acted upon. 14:07:36 qebab: http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Profiling.html#Profiling will give you some ideas 14:07:43 no wonder google was not helpful if it's not standard, I'll check the sbcl manual 14:07:46 thanks, Xach 14:07:56 qebab: i really like the statistical profiler (sb-sprof) 14:08:16 oh jesus 14:08:21 H4ns, OK, I'll forward Erik's original request mail to rt@new.common-lisp.net, Thanks very much. 14:08:22 230mb consed 14:08:30 no wonder this function is slow 14:08:36 SLIME has a menu for profiling which should work with all suppported implementations. it does not use sb-sprof, though. 14:08:46 230MB is nothing to even talk about 14:08:49 qebab: that does not necessarily follow 14:09:03 rich hickey conses 20 gigabytes per second and doesn't care 14:09:07 michaelw: well, alright 14:09:10 :)\ 14:09:17 on 600 cores :) 14:09:26 I only have 2 cores :p 14:09:32 jdz: don't *you* have 600 cores? every american does... 14:09:34 imagine if the all dump... :-P 14:09:50 s/the/they/ 14:12:11 Right, now I can go and have coffee and play some Xbox 360 while it gathers data \o/. Not the 'compiling' excuse, admittedly, but close enough. 14:12:15 thanks guys 14:12:32 dostoyevsky [i=sck@oemcomputer.oerks.de] has joined #lisp 14:12:42 H4ns: mail sent, check it please. 14:12:52 alexsei [n=alexsei@213.234.18.1] has joined #lisp 14:13:33 spacebat [n=akhasha@124-171-93-244.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 14:14:26 -!- plage [n=user@laptop-147-210-128-154.labri.fr] has left #lisp 14:14:31 willb [n=wibenton@wireless119.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 14:15:25 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-147-03.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Connection timed out] 14:18:31 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@89-139-89-250.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 14:19:09 mindCrime [n=chatzill@216.27.62.2] has joined #lisp 14:20:17 michaelw: thank you for the comment yesterday re: method missing. 14:20:56 michaelw: it got me thinking about how to do it the lisp way. turns out the advantages are manifold compared to method_missing. 14:23:43 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:27:33 -!- binghe [n=binghe@60.12.227.4] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:27:45 ttt-- [n=ubuntu@d515336D7.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 14:33:29 -!- l_a_m [n=lam@194.51.71.190] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 14:33:44 argh, bloody new office with its lack of coffee machine :( 14:35:49 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-147-03.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:35:54 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:37:20 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-243-73.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 14:38:56 oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-82-81-140-18.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 14:40:27 pierre_thierry [n=pierre@black.delerce.fr] has joined #lisp 14:44:35 teilzeitstudent [n=teilzeit@dslb-082-083-032-159.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:44:39 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:660:3003:8:0:0:4:68] has quit ["Reconnecting"] 14:44:41 kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:660:3003:8:0:0:4:68] has joined #lisp 14:44:46 l_a_m [n=lam@194.51.71.190] has joined #lisp 14:45:28 hah. /me forgot to trim the untracked files from his patch, and is glad there's nothing embarrassing in there 14:45:28 umis [n=umis@prudent-gloryer.volia.net] has joined #lisp 14:45:49 -!- jfrancis [n=jfrancis@72.14.228.1] has quit [] 14:50:54 mediogre [n=mediogre@PPPoE-78-29-89-3.san.ru] has joined #lisp 14:53:40 -!- eevar2 [n=jalla@106.80-203-27.nextgentel.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 14:55:02 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@154.pool85-49-166.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 14:55:47 matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:56:08 manuel_ [n=manuel@port-92-205-110-59.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 14:56:10 ruediger [n=the-rued@chello062178150152.7.14.univie.teleweb.at] has joined #lisp 14:57:07 -!- H4ns [n=hans@c-71-232-4-167.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:57:59 H4ns [n=hans@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 15:01:55 agilaz [n=agilaz@82.170.104.91] has joined #lisp 15:02:12 good day 15:02:21 is anybody here familiar with cl-ncurses? 15:03:04 zpiro [i=osm@27.85-200-158.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 15:03:20 -!- zpiro [i=osm@27.85-200-158.bkkb.no] has quit [Client Quit] 15:04:45 zpiro [i=osm@27.85-200-158.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 15:05:10 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 15:05:26 _8david, anyway I was thinking that private thirdparty can for bsd projects when such projects stale, if they make a fork while the prooject continues to evolve their fork will be soon outdated, obliging them to share their modifications 15:05:34 -!- zpiro [i=osm@27.85-200-158.bkkb.no] has quit [Client Quit] 15:05:43 s/can for/ can fork/ 15:07:16 <_8david> sorry, I don't understand what you mean 15:08:07 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=Andy@222.212.135.150] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:10:33 agilaz: ask your question and you will find out how familiar people are. 15:10:54 (and good afternoon everyone) 15:11:36 -!- ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:11:54 ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 15:12:14 -!- bighouse [n=bighouse@modemcable012.160-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 15:12:38 thanks.. i am just getting started with using ncurses in general and in lisp specifically. unfortunately i could not find much documentation so i had to find out most myself. placing strings around seems to be working, but colour is a different story 15:13:58 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 15:14:00 what i seem to understand from ncurses documentation in other languages, attrset is the way to go. sbcl tells me it neets a 32 bit unsigned int as an argument, but i am at a loss what ints are required for what colour combinations 15:14:13 does anybody know where i can find this out? 15:14:40 there are probably constants defined somewhere 15:15:06 reaver__ [n=reaver@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 15:15:30 -!- dbbddbdb [n=dbbddbdb@77.41.74.86] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:15:55 i think so... so far i've tried cgreen, c_green, color_green, but so far none seems to be of the correct type 15:15:59 I'd look for their names in the ncurses documentation, then grep for them in the cl-ncurses source directory 15:16:04 good evening (: 15:16:27 (apropos "green") maybe? 15:16:34 hello antifuchs 15:16:43 Krystof: if you don't have anything planned for tonight, there's a hacker meetup at 103 Commercial Street, starting 19:00 15:16:46 hi beach (: 15:16:49 [1]edon [n=edon@82.114.94.4] has joined #lisp 15:16:56 weird, they shipped AMOP and keene's but pcl is on backorder (barnes n noble) 15:17:02 dcrwaford, nope, alas.. 15:17:07 -!- edon is now known as Guest66458 15:17:18 antifuchs: which city? 15:17:23 London (: 15:17:34 -!- [1]edon [n=edon@82.114.94.4] has quit [Client Quit] 15:17:54 that goes for all london-based lispers, actually (: 15:18:00 [1]edon [n=edon@82.114.94.7] has joined #lisp 15:18:23 gotta catch the train cu 15:18:29 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@83-103-78-224.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 15:19:09 agilaz: look at the C ncurses documentation. 15:19:59 that's what got me through the ruby ncurses lib, it lacked docs in the same manner, i added the constants that tcr assumed would be there. 15:21:05 dbbddbdb [n=dbbddbdb@77.41.74.86] has joined #lisp 15:21:57 in loop is there sth like "on" for vectors, too (like "in" = "across")? 15:22:00 hmm have tried some ncurses docs in various languages, but not every version uses the same names for constants it seems.. but i'm trying, thanks 15:22:22 btw, grepping in the source dir does not yield much of interrest 15:22:37 trebor_home, http://l1sp.org/pcl/loop 15:22:47 trebor_home: no 15:22:55 trebor_home: If you need that, you're probably using vector for the wrong purpose 15:23:17 trebor_home: you could use displacement to mimic it though. 15:23:23 well 15:23:32 tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:34 <_8david> ON (FOO . BAR) doesn't really make sense for vectors, but ON (FOO BAR) would be nice sometimes 15:24:33 what i can get from c based docs is that i should create colour pairs with (init_pair), but that one is undefined :S 15:25:19 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-147-03.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:25:32 agilaz: it's certainly possible that cl-ncurses is half-baked incomplete junk. 15:25:43 you are right, i rethink using lists instead. 15:25:46 thanks. 15:26:09 agilaz: but it's possible too that the author or someone else will help you figure out what's going on...the page lists a contact email address 15:26:12 hmm, that would be quite unfortunate.. does anybody know a good lisp based way for printing to the console on specific locations, and preferably with colours? 15:26:24 (in short, an alternative to ncurses) 15:26:41 agilaz: clisp comes with slang(?) support, iirc 15:26:50 which also works on windows, iirc 15:27:05 agilaz: i put together some simple escape codes to do that with xterms. not very portable. 15:28:07 *tcr* watched a movie recently where someone used MS-DOS EDIT, ah the days! 15:28:11 nope... i know escape codes for ansi terminals, but that would be very limiting... 15:28:46 agilaz: yeah, imagine all the adm-3a users that would not be able to use your program! :) 15:29:20 disastrous indeed :) 15:29:54 but afaik, windows / dos terminals are not fond of ansi codes either, which is perhaps even worse 15:30:12 agilaz: there is ANSI.SYS 15:31:18 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@wsip-70-182-253-65.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:31:20 ok, thanks... i'm not very at home in the windows world anymore... is it included in standard installations of windows? is it compatible with the unix ways? 15:31:32 -!- marcoecc [n=me@dial81-135-227-200.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:31:44 agilaz: if you restrict yourself to simple things, using ansi escapes is propably the easiest way. like cursor position, clear to eol/eos, change graphic rendition maybe 15:32:22 agilaz: ansi.sys has been in does since i first used dos, which would be some 15 years ago. i hear that nowadays, people do not use dos anymore. 15:32:39 handling input is another issue too. 15:32:46 in that case, i think i'm on to writing a simple wrapper for the ansi codes.. 15:32:54 agilaz: what are you making? 15:32:58 Xach: indeed. curses does not help much with that, though. 15:33:06 is there a builting set datatype not based on lists? or should I just use a hashtable from string to t? 15:33:22 -!- segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1E992.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:33:24 my code spends a lot of time in remove-duplicates heh :p 15:33:43 trying to make a simple roguelike... have been practicing my lisp for some time now, but i wanted to try a real project to get some more lisp experience... being a fan of nethack, adom and the like i figured to go for a roguelike 15:33:50 *H4ns* hears the clojure choir 15:34:00 segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1C630.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:10 agilaz: for windows?! 15:34:11 H4ns: you have just offered the amulet to Rich Hickey? 15:34:39 ha ha, no i'm developing on os x / linux, but a friend of mine who is interested as well uses windows exclusively 15:34:51 so windows is not really a target, but it would be nice to keep it open 15:35:10 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:35:16 Krystof: nono. it is just that what qebab says reminds me of how pathetic our data structure support is :) 15:35:28 ah. well, i think it's an area where it's pretty hard to do something both interesting and portable. 15:35:44 and my sentence reminds me at how bad my grammar is. 15:35:46 portable shmortable 15:35:49 well, not hard to do, but hard to do without having to make the infrastructure yourself. 15:35:53 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-82-81-140-18.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 15:36:05 well, there's a hashtable already, and it's not that hard to build a usable set type on top of that 15:36:13 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:36:16 (if you're not interested in writing infrastructure, you can either not do the project at all, or stick with a single configuration and write specifically to it) 15:36:21 there are a few libs of this sort of thing around, aren't thy? 15:36:27 *there 15:36:27 qebab: sure, only that you can't use set-difference and friends anymore. 15:36:39 H4ns: that's true, didn't think about that 15:36:48 my usecase is pretty much that I do not want duplicates :p 15:37:01 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.248.11] has quit ["Somebody rebooted me"] 15:37:48 -!- timor [n=icke@w0477.dip.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:37:48 -!- timor1 [n=martin@w0477.dip.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:38:07 <_8david> minion: fset 15:38:11 fset: FSet is a functional set-theoretic collections library. http://www.cliki.net/fset 15:38:11 -!- Guest66458 [n=edon@albalug/edon] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:38:13 hmm, up until now my requirements from ncurses have been quite limited, not much i can't do myself with ansi codes.. so i might as well start using those i think 15:38:40 of course i can still use ncurses for the parts that do work, and use ansi as a backup 15:41:02 oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811112.orange.net.il] has joined #lisp 15:43:37 hah 15:43:46 Hun [n=Hun@p4FCF7D73.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:44:11 gonzojive [n=red@rescomp-08-102861.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 15:44:26 http://wcp.sdf-eu.org/software/ has CL MPD software too 15:45:51 it's in the air 15:46:51 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811112.orange.net.il] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 15:47:25 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@chello062178150152.7.14.univie.teleweb.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 15:49:15 beaumonta [n=abeaumon@154.pool85-49-166.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 15:49:41 ah. was thinking MPD-the-concurrent-programming-language 15:50:33 google suggests "multiple personality disorder" for MPD 15:50:56 user__ [n=user@p549259EA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:36 *H4ns* parses mpd as multi protocol daemon 15:51:41 Are there any text-completion libraries for lisp? 15:52:00 I want something like icicles, or ido, except for stumpwm. 15:52:30 there's swank fuzzy completions 15:52:42 *mogunus* facepalms 15:52:45 I love fuzzy completions. 15:52:59 should be the default when a newbie loads slime... 15:53:27 attila_lendvai: do you not like them? 15:53:47 rread [n=rread@192.18.41.196] has joined #lisp 15:53:48 mogunus: the opposite. it should be the default... 15:53:56 attila_lendvai: wow, do you tail the logs for "swank" or "slime" so that you can tell us all again how much you disagree with slime's maintainers? 15:54:30 rread_ [n=rread@nat/sun/x-2890767a77fef94f] has joined #lisp 15:54:48 Krystof: why isn't it? I'm sure there's a good reason. 15:54:51 user pasted "beware - newbie code" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/67794 15:55:01 *user__* wonders how he could with sbcl:linux *really* kill an sb-ext:run-program process? in the code he tries sb-posix:sigkill (very last line), but it doesnt seem to work. 15:55:05 alexsei_ [n=alexsei@213.234.18.1] has joined #lisp 15:55:18 mogunus: the expressed reason is a desire to keep the core slime code as simple as possible 15:55:23 hrm. do you guys think that 250k functioncalls has a noticable overhead? 15:55:31 Krystof: heck. that's legit. 15:55:42 rread__ [n=rread@192.18.41.196] has joined #lisp 15:55:45 qebab: no 15:55:47 -!- rread [n=rread@192.18.41.196] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:55:51 I think so too. attila_lendvai doesn't, but note that he doesn't maintain stuff 15:56:04 splittist [n=splittis@213.235.9.122] has joined #lisp 15:56:06 morning 15:56:54 I don't use fuzzy completions because they're, well, fuzzy. At least I know how simple and complex completions work and what to expect of them. 15:57:04 hugo [n=hugo@unaffiliated/hugo] has joined #lisp 15:57:08 splittist: become a lawyer, see the world? 15:57:08 Krystof: no, it's not my disagreement that counts, but my belief that it's so much better than the others that it should be the default 15:57:18 i'm that kind of guy who usually tries to do something about things that he thinks are unoptimal or could be improved... 15:57:48 Krystof: hi (: 15:58:09 mogunus: you running stump on sbcl or clisp? 15:58:12 yo 15:58:19 splittist: I think you might be interested in the hacker meetup as well... probably a bit far away, but might be worth it (: 15:58:20 bougyman: SBCL. it's great! 15:58:21 mogunus: have you seen what he uses for stumpish? it has completion. 15:58:28 user__: WITH-OUTPUT-TO-STRING and SEARCH would help make that simpler. and eliminating unnecessary PROGNs too. 15:58:55 mogunus: also, there's a #stumpwm 15:59:17 bougyman: for stumpish? no, actually. Is that the interface that comes up when you run run-shell-command? because it seems slow. 15:59:30 i don't think so, no. 15:59:31 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-76-118-155-153.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:59:35 hmm, anyone know a system on cliki that uses asdf-system-connections offhand? 15:59:37 stumpish is it's own command. 15:59:44 run it from a terminal in X. 16:00:01 oh, duh. google, my friend, has informed me. 16:00:21 bougyman: oh, yeah, I know. I was looking for libraries, expecting to have to add something to stump.. 16:00:34 Krystof: there's a hacker meetup at 103 Commercial Street, E16BG today. interested? (: 16:00:38 sure, let's just hide a useful feature well enough that a newcomer won't meet it in the first months, or possibly ever... in the name of core simplicity. the ultimate simplicity is an empty project... :) 16:00:43 *H4ns* just fixed rt@new.common-lisp.net - it seems that someone sent email there and it bounced due to a misconfig, please resend (except for binghe) 16:00:45 E16? 16:00:45 looks like he uses rlwrap. 16:00:53 oh, E1 6BG 16:01:10 yeah, that 16:01:15 uk post codes are weird 16:01:18 you'll learn UK postcode format 16:01:38 I will (: 16:01:42 Anyway, I am not exactly in the area, and these days my life needs more planning 16:01:46 found somewhere to live yet? 16:02:08 ok, next time then, with more of a notice (: 16:02:13 Krystof: see the world? 16:02:44 ths [n=ths@port-212-202-236-178.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 16:02:49 dmiles_afk: I don't quite parse your example. Care to show me exactly what you changed? 16:02:51 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-240-8.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 16:03:01 antifuchs: they make postcodes with E's at the beginning? Next you'll be telling me people live south of the Thames... 16:03:16 I haven't met any (: 16:03:40 well, we've found a flat that works for the next 3 weeks; it seems my life is telling me to plan less (-: 16:03:40 if you say "morning" to us, splittist ... 16:04:23 Krystof: Oh. Well, I always say morning. (OTOH, I will be in Bangkok and HK in the next week or so...) 16:04:31 What's the difference between new and vanilla c-l.net? 16:04:41 btw, fuzzy's scoring is made so that it's always matching the same symbol as the less-fuzzy completions for the same input. but anyway... 16:05:16 tic: new.c-l.net is the new, all-shiny box that will replace the old, grungy one soonish 16:05:27 yay shiny new cl.net! 16:05:28 H4ns, OK! 16:05:36 tic: do not use new.c-l.net yet, except for tickets. 16:05:43 (thought it was related to the redesign drewc talked about a while ago) 16:06:21 nostoi [n=nostoi@229.Red-81-38-52.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:06:31 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@154.pool85-49-166.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:07:03 lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-15-172.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:08:01 Omaz_ [i=Pennerga@f054019039.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:08:07 -!- Omaz_ [i=Pennerga@f054019039.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 16:09:23 -!- hugo [n=hugo@unaffiliated/hugo] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:10:12 -!- alexsei [n=alexsei@213.234.18.1] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:10:22 http://phil.nullable.eu/ looks nice 16:10:28 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-76-118-155-153.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:10:47 -!- rread_ [n=rread@nat/sun/x-2890767a77fef94f] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:10:49 16:12:19 oudeis [n=oudeis@77.125.138.91] has joined #lisp 16:12:28 ruediger [n=the-rued@chello062178150152.7.14.univie.teleweb.at] has joined #lisp 16:15:56 -!- k4cp [n=k4@196-209-106-227-wblv-esr-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:16:40 replor [n=replor@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:17:26 tcr: it does 16:17:37 replor_ [n=replor@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:17:57 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@wsip-70-182-253-65.ks.ks.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:20:31 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-147-03.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:21:12 -!- mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@dm.sonopia.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:22:20 -!- blitz_ [n=blitz@141.76.6.33] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:24:06 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-161-172.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 16:25:27 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has left #lisp 16:25:29 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:25:48 -!- antgreen [n=green@localhostlocaldomain.wbb.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:26:03 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 16:26:32 antgreen [n=green@localhostlocaldomain.wbb.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 16:26:37 demmeln [n=demmeln@atradig112.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 16:27:13 if someone knowledgeable about mcclim is around: is it possible the option-pane is missing in mcclim? 16:28:41 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 16:28:42 -!- mikesch [n=axel@static-87-79-66-80.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:29:41 -!- nostoi [n=nostoi@229.Red-81-38-52.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:30:04 <_8david> demmeln: don't know. What makes you think that it's missing? 16:30:26 <_8david> The method browser example uses an option pane, I think. Does that work for you? 16:30:29 plutonas [n=plutonas@h-188-232.A189.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 16:31:09 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@chello062178150152.7.14.univie.teleweb.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:31:59 i get an error trying to construct one 16:32:59 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 16:33:46 Which unit test suit would you recommend to use? 16:34:11 tomoyuki28jp: I use fiveam 16:34:15 error: no applicable method for generic function make-pane-1 16:34:15 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@port-92-205-110-59.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [] 16:34:20 mikesch [n=axel@tmo-109-2.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #lisp 16:34:35 _8david: i'll check in the method browser 16:34:40 -!- replor___ [n=replor@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:34:49 -!- replor [n=replor@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:34:51 dlowe: I didn't know that. I will check that out. thanks! 16:37:53 _8david: in the method browser it works... why is it not found in my app... strange 16:38:51 tomoyuki28jp: see http://aperiodic.net/phil/archives/Geekery/notes-on-lisp-testing-frameworks.html and/or http://www.cliki.net/test%20framework 16:39:31 attila_lendvai: Thanks! :) 16:40:32 I have just installed fiveam, and it looks nice. But Stefil also looks nice. 16:41:09 tomoyuki28jp: my vote goes for stefil but i'm biasd... but if not stefil, then fiveam... 16:41:55 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:42:07 cmsimon [n=deltah@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 16:43:12 attila_lendvai: yeah, both of them looks good. I will also try stefil and see which one I like better. thanks. 16:45:07 ahh now it works... forgot to wrap it around (with-output-as-gadget... 16:45:24 -!- user__ [n=user@p549259EA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 16:45:33 mikesch_ [n=axel@tmo-121-2.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #lisp 16:47:05 -!- Bzek [n=SK_sj@mcc-dyn-30-211.kosnet.ru] has quit ["."] 16:50:43 -!- antgreen [n=green@localhostlocaldomain.wbb.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:51:00 -!- cmsimon [n=deltah@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:51:08 -!- [1]edon [n=edon@82.114.94.7] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:52:09 jfrancis [n=jfrancis@72.14.224.1] has joined #lisp 16:52:18 x6j8x [n=x6j8x@77.21.45.123] has joined #lisp 16:52:49 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@212.88.117.162] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:54:29 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:55:23 -!- _adeht is now known as adeht 16:55:43 blitz_ [n=blitz@89-186-143-184.dynamic.primacom.net] has joined #lisp 16:55:48 syamajala2 [n=syamajal@140.232.148.90] has joined #lisp 16:56:02 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-21ca38cc276a7826] has joined #lisp 16:58:38 replor [n=replor@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:59:27 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:01:58 -!- ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit ["Download xchat-gnome: apt-get install xchat-gnome"] 17:03:19 -!- mikesch [n=axel@tmo-109-2.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:03:42 blakkino [n=BLaCk@host-84-221-80-80.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 17:04:09 Before I send the following draft to cdr-discuss, I'd like to ask for spellings errors etc.: http://common-lisp.net/~trittweiler/with-readtable-iterator.pdf 17:04:19 Hi adeht! 17:04:29 -!- alexsei_ is now known as [Head|Rest] 17:05:47 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 17:06:05 *tcr* found one already: "obstactle" 17:06:46 -!- [Head|Rest] is now known as abkhazia 17:06:54 -!- lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-15-172.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 17:06:58 -!- trebor_home [n=trebor@dslb-084-058-248-087.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:07:07 tcr: restrains rather than detains. (There's probably a better word than either.) 17:07:22 tcr: main obstacle TO writing 17:07:53 _zenon_ [n=x@c83-254-68-50.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:08:04 tcr: 'this omission is' rather than 'it's' 17:09:04 Is there a new SBCL for October? I don't see it on the download page. 17:09:09 -!- gigamonk` is now known as gigamonkey 17:09:12 tcr: 'alongside' or 'with' or 'together with' (but not 'along side with') 17:09:22 gigamonkey: just released within the hour 17:09:25 gigamonkey: (or so) 17:09:50 Word. 17:10:13 Not up on sourceforge yet? 17:10:39 *Xach* doesn't know about that part 17:10:52 tcr: I don't understand the first sentence of Rationale. (Stop me if this isn't helpful.) 17:11:16 -!- x6j8x [n=x6j8x@77.21.45.123] has quit [] 17:11:39 besiria [n=user@ppp083212085226.dsl.uom.gr] has joined #lisp 17:12:02 x6j8x [n=x6j8x@77.21.45.123] has joined #lisp 17:12:25 tcr: The proposal does not specify the home package... (If you say it, it's deliberate.) Then you can omit the 'However'. 17:12:40 tcr: Current PractiCe? 17:13:01 splittist: WITH-READTABLE-ITERATOR is more general than a putative DO-READTABLE because you can use it to implement different iteration forms 17:13:49 -!- x6j8x [n=x6j8x@77.21.45.123] has quit [Client Quit] 17:14:30 x6j8x [n=x6j8x@77.21.45.123] has joined #lisp 17:14:35 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:14:38 splittist: Your comments are appreciated very much. 17:15:32 -!- replor_ [n=replor@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:15:41 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 17:15:59 I put an updated version online under the same url. 17:16:07 tcr: hey 17:16:44 tcr: it's probably Ariel Badichi 17:17:03 tcr: OK. How about adding the first and second sentences of Rationale together, then: The proposed macro w-r-i is closely modelled ... and therefore facilitates a variety of iteration forms in a way consistent with existing parts of CL. (or something) 17:17:51 -!- umis [n=umis@prudent-gloryer.volia.net] has quit [] 17:18:44 -!- mikesch_ [n=axel@tmo-121-2.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:19:01 michaelw: what's the question? 17:19:35 tcr: in Current Practice, I'd put the second and third paras together as something like 'Patches to implement the propsal have been developed for SBCL (the author), CLISP (AB) and CCL (SC - note: an ealier version of the proposal).' 17:19:39 adeht: You used "Arik" in the mails you sent to me; but michaelw and me remember someone called "Ariel Badichi" contributing to Slime. 17:19:58 tcr: also, "Dicussion" 17:20:23 tcr: "Arik" is short for "Ariel" 17:20:46 tcr: some more concrete description of what your library needs w-r-i functionality for, might help the argumentation 17:21:06 tcr: Cost to implementsors could just say 'The macro ... should be straightforwardly implementable in a couple of hours.' 17:21:29 splittist: I like it the way it is (Current Practice), I think it appreciates the work they did a little bit more. And I'm really thankful for it. 17:22:24 michaelw: It needs exactly the functionality as specified. :-) 17:23:04 tcr: yeah, but why do you need to iterate over readtables? 17:23:37 -!- bryteise [n=bryteise@c-76-115-234-122.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:23:40 tcr: I'd add a section at the end for 'Special Thanks' then or add it to Discussion - it just doesn't seem terribly standardish, and 17:23:45 s/, and// 17:24:07 bryteise [n=bryteise@c-76-115-234-122.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:29 tcr: proposed coalescing 17:24:52 splittist: I didn't understand that last remark 17:25:04 tcr: generator is exhausted). [Note full stop outside paren.] 17:25:26 I'm having a hard time figuring out how to upload SBCL tarballs to sourceforge. do they offer ssh access to any of their hosts? 17:25:35 splittist: s/Special Thanks/Acknowledgement/ 17:25:58 jewel_ [n=jewel@41.247.195.116] has joined #lisp 17:26:10 tcr: which last remark? Words 3-5 of Discussion section should be "proposed coalescing". 17:27:11 michaelw: indeed. 17:27:27 tcr: or did you mean the remark about standardish? 17:27:39 no the coalescing bit 17:27:49 Sure the -ing form is better? 17:28:22 kreuter: yes, check the "file release area" docs 17:28:30 tcr: to my ear, yes. 17:28:39 antifuchs: thanks. 17:28:43 splittist: I think issue writeups were somewhat semi-formal 17:28:57 kreuter: I use rsync -avP -e ssh sbcl-$RELEASE-$PLATFORM-binary.tar.bz2 frs.sourceforge.net:uploads/ 17:28:59 tcr: end of discussion, "there is a a real necessity" (repeated a) 17:29:17 -!- besiria [n=user@ppp083212085226.dsl.uom.gr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:29:21 ok 17:29:31 antifuchs: what about fixing up the web page? 17:29:32 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-147-03.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:29:33 tcr: true, but it's such a change in tone I found it jarring. 17:30:02 splittist: So what's about interpunctation; I thought the dot must come within the parenthesis in English as opposed to German. 17:30:12 kreuter: ok, you need to cvs checkout the "sbcl-page" module from the sbcl cvs 17:30:36 oh, but first, you need to admin the file releases for "sbcl" and the appropriate release 17:31:04 select your tarball, and add it to the release. basically, navigate the file release web form from hell 17:31:27 are non-admins able to do this for SBCL? 17:31:32 Ifur [i=osm@27.85-200-158.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 17:31:37 tcr: I think there might well be a difference between American and proper English, but I can't remember now. All I know is that when I was a subeditor (admittedly more than a decade ago) I would have changed that. 17:31:39 as a developer you should have the permissions to do that 17:31:49 (I do, so no reason why you shouldn't) 17:32:00 you need to login and look at the sbcl project page 17:32:09 I'm there now. 17:32:11 there's an "Admin" menu there 17:32:15 eaumontab [n=abeaumon@154.pool85-49-166.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 17:32:39 -!- Mr_SpOOn [n=Mr_SpOOn@abdallo.cs.unibo.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:33:08 in the orange menu bar, not the lower one 17:33:21 do you hate the SF.net UI as much as I do? 17:33:23 eh? 17:33:39 I've never used it before, so my opinion is premature, but YEAH! 17:33:47 for me, it says "Steel Bank Common Lisp | Summary | Download | Admin" 17:34:04 on the left below the menu bar that says "Log out | Account | ..." 17:34:09 bloody hell, what is this 17:34:31 I can't believe I'm doing this (: 17:34:34 lemonodor [n=lemonodo@66.43.112.62] has joined #lisp 17:35:31 at any rate, if you click on File Releases in that admin menu, you get to "Edit" the "sbcl" release, and there look for the release version (they're sorted alphabetically, of course) 17:35:52 -!- tritchey_ is now known as tritchey 17:35:58 (who would want to look through a version number list that was sorted by creation date, newest-first?) 17:36:12 are there examples of previous Release Notes around? 17:36:28 never mind 17:36:33 hmm, are you making a new one? 17:36:43 yes 17:37:01 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-243-73.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [] 17:37:13 oh (: 17:37:29 all the other releases have notes, so best to look at those 17:38:33 it's just the head of NEWS. 17:39:07 so that's the notes, then (: 17:39:20 FufieToo [n=punchbal@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 17:42:11 gah, what a piece o' crap 17:42:43 hah 17:43:34 -!- Fufie [n=punchbal@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:43:49 ok, the release is released. 17:44:01 you were going to tell me about the web site? 17:44:55 -!- splittist [n=splittis@213.235.9.122] has quit ["Source Forge - too painful..."] 17:45:44 schasi [n=schasi@p54A24CA2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:18 slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FEAC225.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:36 -!- eaumontab is now known as abeaumont 17:46:56 right. basically, in that sbcl-page tree, put the current NEWS file, edit the index page and the platform-release-table (or whatever it's called) files, and use "make upload" to put it up on the sbcl website 17:47:13 I /think/ it's called "make upload". I have done my best to make it work, and be safe (: 17:47:20 antgreen [n=green@localhostlocaldomain.wbb.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 17:47:26 okay 17:47:51 good luck, I'm off to the meeting 17:47:56 bye 17:47:59 and thanks 17:49:04 -!- beaumonta [n=abeaumon@154.pool85-49-166.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:49:31 rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-126-219.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:49:49 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FEAC225.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:50:00 slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FEAC225.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:52:04 -!- mediogre [n=mediogre@PPPoE-78-29-89-3.san.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:54:15 michaelw, splittist: I put a new version online where I tried to address your comments. 17:54:44 fusss [n=irc@pool-72-66-35-198.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:51 I have a series of constructors like MAKE-FOO, MAKE-BAR, MAKE-BAZ; they take almost identical arguments (they all create GUI elements which must have an ID, label string and coords, depth, etc. 17:56:24 how can I create a MAKE-ELEMENT macro which takes element name as a first arguments and concatenates 'MAKE- with the element name? 17:56:36 fusss: why bother. Just use MAKE-INSTANCE 17:56:43 Sounds like you're trying to reinvent make-instance 17:56:47 *gigamonkey* wins! 17:57:16 (intern (concatenate 'string "MAKE-" arg)) 17:57:18 make instance makes class instances, these stuff are actually opaque types 17:57:26 reinventing stuff is fun :) 17:57:50 fusss: Well, maybe that's your problem. ;-) 17:57:58 I tried intern, but turns out MAKE-FOO calls INIT-FOO, PREPARE-FOO, all with identical arguments to INIT-BAR, PREPARE-BAR, etc. 17:57:59 In that case I'd go with a generic function. 17:58:03 this make-element macro is a bad idea. 17:58:15 yeah, sounds like a job for CLOS 17:58:23 (defmethod make-elemenet ((eql arg 'foo) ..) ? 17:58:24 (defgeneric make-element (type ...) ...) 17:58:31 yeah. 17:58:43 heh? 17:59:05 I'm saying, yeah, that looks about right. 17:59:08 fusss, or use defstruct, it makes those make-foo functions for you 17:59:43 Except don't use DEFSTRUCT; it lacks style. 17:59:57 (Reasonable people may differ on that last point.) 17:59:58 better style than a macro 18:00:15 oudeis: what do you think DEFSTRUCT is? A very unstylish macro. 18:00:27 :) 18:00:39 at least it has nice antique flavour 18:00:45 *adeht* used defstruct today 18:01:01 *tcr* is a happy defstruct user, too. 18:01:15 adeht: I hope it was because extensive profiling showed that slot-access was your bottleneck. 18:01:34 fusss: it really sounds like you want these things to be defined with DEFCLASS so you can use MAKE-INSTANCE and define generic functions, INIT, PREPARE, etc. 18:01:35 defstruct rules for persisting stuff 18:01:44 uhm 18:01:55 drewc: no, just premature optimization. used it to define a state structure for Kahan summation. 18:02:06 yeah, seems like it gigamonkey 18:02:13 adeht: why not use, say, a class? 18:02:31 drewc: I always use classes. needed a change :) 18:02:39 adeht: fair enough :) 18:02:46 structs *are* classes 18:02:51 *drewc* is not the style police, after all. 18:02:52 Everything is a class! 18:03:02 42 is not a class 18:03:10 No, it's an instance of a class. 18:03:14 mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-87-78-4-246.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:03:15 another thing. I had an slime session running for months under SCREEN and I was resuming it whenever I had work to do. the session crashed yesterday and it's been impossible to bring up my hunchentoot application due to dependency hell :-P 18:03:16 right 18:03:23 is null a proper class? 18:03:33 i think it's a quasi-ultimate singleton :) 18:03:34 clhs: null 18:03:35 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_null.htm 18:03:36 looks like. 18:03:40 fusss: it helps to peridocially check those things. 18:03:51 (class-of '()) => NULL 18:04:00 not by restarting, but by trying to start fresh somewhere else from time to time... 18:04:03 clhs: nil 18:04:04 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_nil.htm 18:04:11 Hun: i think you are cunfusing classes and instances. 18:04:17 confusing 18:04:25 Hun: *I* think you were maybe thinking of the type NIL. 18:04:32 Which is not a class. 18:04:33 does it make a difference is if I DEFPACKAGE my packages as :FOO #:FOO or "FOO"? asdf was killing me yesterday til I decided to curb it aside til delivery time 18:04:40 (Not to be confused with the value NIL.) 18:04:42 drewc: true. thought the right thing, typed the wrong one 18:05:05 fusss: not really. 18:05:11 klausi [n=klausi@port-92-202-26-26.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:05:14 is anonymous CVS on common-lisp.net broken? 18:05:16 fusss: but some folks care a lot. 18:05:17 fusss: use #:foo 18:05:23 fusss: use :foo 18:05:24 *Xach* uses #:foo also 18:05:35 kreuter: ciould be .. what problem you noticing? 18:05:46 Now we need someone who likes annoying Franz to say 'use "FOO"' 18:05:56 *kreuter* uses "FOO" 18:06:00 *Xach* sees a new band name forming: Peter and the Sharp Colons 18:06:06 gigamonkey: you keep your ugly symbols out of my keyword pacakge! 18:06:08 drewc: "cvs [checkout aborted]: unrecognized auth response from common-lisp.net: pam failed to release authenticator" 18:06:12 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:06:28 kreuter: sounds broken to me, i'll have a look 18:06:31 Maybe it's conservation of sharps--I'm in the #'(lambda () ...) school, vs. (lambda () ...) 18:06:31 rme_ [n=rme@pool-70-105-121-210.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:06:40 kreuter: works for me. did you log in first? 18:06:47 erm 18:06:49 possibly not 18:06:57 drewc: hey, it's *everybody's* keyword package. 18:06:57 what's the passoid? 18:07:00 passwoid* 18:07:12 kreuter: i think it's anonymous/ or anonymous/anonymous 18:07:27 *Xach* uses nikodemus's "clnet" program most of the time 18:07:35 drewc: nevermind. pebkac. 18:08:03 if you have to type a # every time you do a lambda, you'll wear out your keyboard soon 18:08:06 kreuter: ack 18:08:32 what's the difference between #'(lambda and (lambda? 18:08:46 The latter is a macro that expands to the former. 18:08:52 bougyman: (lambda is more malleable :) 18:08:53 bougyman: there is none 18:08:55 bougyman: one of them is the way God meant man to write CL programs, and the other is a macro. 18:09:00 I hear that you're supposed to use the former, but I don't know anything about it really 18:09:01 booyaa [n=booyaa@adsl-67-121-157-251.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:14 *qebab* uses the former only because he always has 18:09:20 H4ns: one can shadow lambda.. but not change #'(lambda without a codewalker or such 18:09:43 There are places that require (lambda ...) 18:09:56 *Xach* feels obliged to bring up ((lambda (foo) ...) 42) 18:10:01 yeah, function names 18:10:13 oh yes, all the fine points, here they are again! :) 18:10:14 marcoecc [n=me@host86-148-147-243.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:10:22 adeht: (lambda ...) is not a /function name/ 18:10:34 tcr: I know it isn't 18:11:08 can you macrolet it or something evil? 18:11:24 Let's pretend we're all newbies. It should fill the next three hours with plenty discussion. 18:11:35 I don't even have to pretend 18:11:38 ): 18:11:49 ooh ooh ooh, I want to get rid of all parens not in smilies 18:12:35 because aren't curly brackets sooo much fancier :P 18:12:35 qebab: You're not allowed to macrolet LAMBDA, See CLHS 11.1.2.1.2. 18:12:46 tcr: okay, thanks :) 18:12:57 clhs 11.1.2.1.2.1 18:12:57 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/11_ababa.htm 18:13:38 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-126-219.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:14:27 *bougyman* is not pretending 18:14:43 i am trying to figure out how to write a macro that will define arbitrary functions for me. 18:14:57 i've found that a function name can not be a string, thus far. 18:15:12 every time you fight about defstruct vs. defclass, Clojure claims another user! 18:15:17 INTERN produces symbols from strings. 18:15:39 And STRING-UPCASE will probably by handy. 18:15:40 a function name is either a symbol or a list of two elements, the first of which is setf and the second a symbol 18:15:42 Xach: i figured there was such a thing, thank you. 18:15:52 gigamonkey: i did find UPCASE. 18:16:05 adeht: AH, that was confusing the hell out of me. 18:16:11 sblc says it has to be a symbol or a cons 18:16:19 UPCASE is elisp 18:16:22 doesn't say the cons is restricted. 18:16:25 or actually `upcase' 18:16:29 bougyman: there is already a macro in CL fro defining arbitrary functions... DEFUN! :) 18:16:52 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@77.125.138.91] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:16:54 drewc: that's what the macro uses. 18:16:57 if you don't want to mess around with all that intern and parse-integer things, you can sacrifice a puppy and just use read-from-string 18:17:08 the macro creates a templated defun. 18:17:35 hi i have some example code containing a #+nil (some code) what does #+nil do? 18:17:51 it comments out the next sexp 18:18:08 klausi: #+ reads the following form if : is in *features* at read time. 18:18:13 it makes sure that the sexp comming after it runs in New Implementation of Lisp only 18:18:29 klausi: some people use #+nil to mean "don't read the next form" 18:18:44 Xach ok i got it thanks 18:18:51 it means that the reader will take care of stopping the comment at the right point 18:19:00 and not the programmer 18:19:17 *Xach* doesn't really like it when that form of commenting escapes into the wild in released software 18:19:43 If I cannot macrolet lambda, can I symbol-macrolet it? 18:19:56 http://www.google.com/codesearch?q=%22%23%2Bnil%22 has some examples... 18:20:19 Xach: says (intern (format nil "make-~a" some-function-name)) is not valid for a function name. 18:20:26 *H4ns* is glad to see nothing he wrote on the first page. 18:20:31 *rme_* too 18:20:59 VityokOrgUa: Yes, you can. 18:21:10 bougyman: you did it wrong. 18:21:30 any recommendations for a library to generate/parse/edit images? preferably imagemagic bindings? cliki lists a crowd :-P 18:21:32 marcoe [n=me@host81-158-133-32.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:21:34 bougyman: the result of evaluating it is 18:21:38 bougyman: `(defun ,(intern ...) ...) would be a start. but you should also realize that the reader upcases symbols by default. 18:21:38 Xach: i assumed that. 18:21:49 fusss: i use cl-gd, documented well, works well. 18:21:59 alright 18:22:15 SBCL should push NIL to *features* 18:22:17 bougyman: so you are more likely to get the result you want with (intern "MAKE-FOO") 18:22:30 tcr: SBCL would break bad. 18:22:38 ahhhh, ediware. I must hack in a lisp dialect named Weitz Commong Lisp :-P 18:23:07 break bad! encourage good! 18:23:38 dammit. sbcl-page's makefile and README disagree, and they're both wrong. 18:23:41 sbcl for the rescue! 18:23:53 Xach: did it with MAKE-FOO, still no dice. 18:23:53 kreuter: I'm not sure, perhaps it'll break in interesting subtle ways instead; each breakage as wonderfully subtle as a snowflake! 18:24:08 not legal as a function name: (INTERN (STRING-UPCASE (FORMAT NIL "make-~a" "word"))) 18:24:18 bougyman: did you notice what i said about ` and ,? 18:24:25 i did the ` on the defun. 18:24:30 and , before word. 18:24:35 before what? 18:24:50 that's not what i wrote. 18:24:51 tcr: alls I know is that paredit inserts an unwanted space when I try writing #+(or), so I don't use that to comment things out. 18:24:55 bougyman: You don't seem to grok backquote. Perhaps you should read pcl's macro chapter once more again. 18:25:05 ah, evaluate the intern 18:25:11 i was just evaluating the parameter for word. 18:25:24 those dusty characters can get lost sometimes 18:25:46 absolutely perfect. 18:25:46 kreuter: Join the club of paranoid Lisp hackers, and use #+#:ignore 18:25:49 danke, again. 18:26:06 It's right next to Anyonymous Lisp Users 18:26:28 you cannot defun inside a defun, is that correct? 18:26:31 phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:37 you can 18:26:41 but it's evil 18:26:42 hell you can 18:26:42 you can, but you probably don't want to. 18:26:46 i know you can return a function. 18:26:47 but it's a little bit weird if you're used to scheme 18:26:53 but it would seem a mess to defun in a defun. 18:26:59 you get a new defun in your space every call 18:27:02 -!- name [n=name@sburn/devel/name] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 18:27:06 try flet or labels 18:27:35 silenius [n=jl@fuckup.club.berlin.ccc.de] has joined #lisp 18:27:55 it's prefectly kosher to defun in a defmacro, though, as i'm proposing? 18:28:19 evaluating a defun at macroexpansion time would be weird 18:28:19 i keep my defuns in the top-level 18:28:24 many define- macros do it 18:28:36 expanding into a defun is commonplace. 18:28:39 i'm using this to replace the functionality of method-missing in the library i'm writing. 18:28:53 seemed the lisp way to do it. 18:29:11 -!- marcoecc [n=me@host86-148-147-243.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:29:16 i even feel squemish about (let ((counter 0)) (defun ...) type of stuff. God created global-variables for a reason :-P 18:29:45 does that create a closure for that function, fusss ? 18:29:55 fusss: but think of all the good hiding and protection that you get! 18:30:54 protection is for quiche-eaters 18:31:04 and mobsters 18:31:35 real programmers program with (optimize speed (safety 0) (debug 0)) 18:31:59 bougyman: closure is too big of a word, just a binding for COUNTER only visible to all the defuns enclosed in the let (and a good debugger ;-) 18:32:30 so, there's got to be some way to put files on the sbcl website. 18:33:06 Is anyone here who was involved in the Russian translation of PCL? 18:33:53 *Xach* wonders about a parliamentary procedure-oriented lisp called Cloture 18:34:01 fusss: I also feel squimish about that. 18:34:21 tcr: #+ (or) seems cleaner to me. 18:34:32 wow. I just finished watching the videos on Clojure -- very interesting stuff. 18:35:02 sorry I couldn't have seen it in person. 18:35:19 Xach: that'd be a decent name for a real-time Lisp. 18:35:26 kreuter: which part of that process is causing problems? 18:35:38 uploading the html files 18:36:45 I have never heard anybody pronounce these stuff, I don't think I wanna watch that video and feel weird afterwards 18:36:47 Xach: thanks for putting up the links to the Clojure videos. 18:36:52 I don't seem to be able to log into shell.sourceforge.net 18:37:32 tltstc [n=nine@192.207.69.1] has joined #lisp 18:37:50 fusss: i felt weird afterwards, but it was a combination of illness and beer. the feeling i got from the talk felt good. 18:38:10 kreuter: ok. I think that's the only way to upload them 18:38:50 I'm able to sftp to "kreuter,sbcl@web.sourceforge.net". 18:39:23 beer I understand. wrote a matrix multiplication routine last night with a dot-product that didn't have addition! yeah, multiply row by column and MULTIPLY the result again. suddenly, my single-float values where getting fatter quick and i had to pull aside the hacking-mobile and take a nap. 18:39:30 oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811112.orange.net.il] has joined #lisp 18:40:39 Jabberwockey [n=jens@dslb-082-083-082-085.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:02 salex [n=user@216.80.143.240] has joined #lisp 18:45:43 rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #lisp 18:46:17 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 18:46:19 sabetts [n=sabetts@S0106000a95700fd8.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:50:03 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.110.17] has joined #lisp 18:50:13 #latex 18:50:25 oops - pardon :P 18:50:43 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:53:34 ehu [i=52aa21ad@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-1034596eac717d91] has joined #lisp 18:54:14 hippee-lee [n=hippee-l@sta-206-168-218-28.rockynet.com] has joined #lisp 18:55:59 -!- hippee-lee [n=hippee-l@sta-206-168-218-28.rockynet.com] has left #lisp 18:56:45 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 18:58:34 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-240-8.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 18:59:01 -!- borism_ [n=boris@195-50-205-169-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 18:59:31 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-240-8.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 19:01:08 *gigamonkey* just heard from Apress there's some interest in publishing a German translation of PCL. 19:01:13 jk_ [n=jochem@jkossen.nl] has joined #lisp 19:01:35 anyone know where to get berkeley db 5? elephant requires it for fast object store. the oracle site that v4 19:01:36 *dcrawford* cheers 19:01:56 fusss: what are you running? 19:02:06 linux + sbcl 19:02:06 fusss: depending on your OS, there's different ways to get it. 19:02:11 what distro? 19:02:12 pkhuong: I favor #-(and) 19:02:12 slackware 19:02:38 tcr: philistine ;) 19:02:47 hm. Check the repos. Not sure about slackware. 19:03:03 oh wait 19:03:26 I think you mean berkeleydb 4.5 19:03:28 not 5.0 19:03:29 >_> 19:03:33 tcr: i use #+this-is-some-silly-comment-explaining-why-this-is-b0rked 19:04:16 elephant INSTALL said "5"; i have it running fine with CL-SQL + ELE-MYSQL 19:04:19 I don't understand the #- stuff. Where should I refer to? I've seen it used... 19:04:31 clhs #- 19:04:31 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhr.htm 19:04:40 drewc: Sounds more like a comment-region would be appropriate for that. 19:05:17 there's some #-stuff for marking stuff as deprecated and the like, right? 19:05:20 what's the l1sp link for #- ? 19:05:28 #+ should only be used for features, man. 19:05:34 dcrawford: l1sp fails at that 19:05:40 I use #+nil (and never commit these things), unless of course I'm using the New Implementation of Lisp ;) 19:05:41 Xach, noticed :) 19:05:43 dcrawford: i'm not sure what to do. 19:05:47 travisjeffery [n=eatsleep@user130-2.wireless.utoronto.ca] has joined #lisp 19:06:00 tcr: indeed it might, i have a few bad habits. 19:06:08 antifuchs suggested javascript. i'm not sure about that. 19:07:23 drewc: You can C-SPC C-M-SPC M-x comment-region to comment out the sexp at point 19:07:28 crafty predicate creation + sb-rt's deftest == easy test cases :-) 19:07:36 fusss: http://common-lisp.net/project/elephant/doc/elephant.html#Berkeley-DB Says 4.5 19:08:08 http://www.db5.org/ 19:08:08 <_< 19:08:22 tcr: ok, i promise, no more #+ tomfoolery. 19:08:27 sykopomp: oh, thanks mate. you really shouldn't have. cheers! (yeah, I saw the db5 site first and thought i was missing the sources) 19:08:43 jsnell: http://sourceforge.net/community/forum/topic.php?id=3518&page 19:08:49 drewc: Similiarly, you can use C-SPC C-M-SPC M-x query-replace to run query-replace only within the sexp at point (where useful for renaming local parameters) 19:09:22 -!- schasi [n=schasi@p54A24CA2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Verlassend"] 19:09:39 schasi [n=schasi@p54A24CA2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:09:40 kreuter: thanks for the information. can you update the README in sbcl-page? 19:09:45 tcr: oh! that's handy indeed. 19:09:52 yeah 19:10:14 ruediger [n=the-rued@chello062178150152.7.14.univie.teleweb.at] has joined #lisp 19:11:45 -!- jk [n=jochem@jkossen.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:13:08 -!- jk_ is now known as jk 19:13:40 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811112.orange.net.il] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:15:26 tcr: nice! I always forget that one and just start a query replace from-point and stop it 19:15:47 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #lisp 19:15:53 -!- mejja [n=user@c-7d2472d5.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [""The U.S. is too isolated, too insular. They don't program enough and don't really participate in the big dialogue of softwar] 19:17:14 meow 19:17:54 vasa [n=vasa@mm-42-94-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has joined #lisp 19:18:24 i tend to use temporary t-m-m for cases like that 19:18:40 C-SPC C-SPC C-M-b (or reverse-isearch) 19:19:17 -!- rread__ [n=rread@192.18.41.196] has quit [] 19:22:27 whew. website updated 19:24:00 kreuter: you star! 19:24:14 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-133-170-239.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:24:18 I'm confused. 19:25:08 why? It's a lot of work 19:25:14 ; (TRULY-THE SB-PCL::CTOR 19:25:14 ; (SB-KERNEL:%MAKE-STRUCTURE-INSTANCE 19:25:14 ; # 'NIL)) 19:25:15 hrm 19:26:17 I saw that someplace recently. where are you getting it? 19:26:44 hello all. i updated slime and sbcl on my system, and went back to emacs afterwards and ran M-x slime, and get a file does not exist error on swank-sbcl.fasl. the path is looking in my .slime directory and includes the version of sbcl. in my current .slime dir, there is a file of that name but in a path for my old sbcl version 19:27:13 so, i'm wondering if there's some setup step to create those files that i'm forgetting now (it's been a while since i installed slime) 19:28:11 kreuter: unfortunately, doing a fresh clbuild 19:28:17 so I don't really know where it's coming from? 19:28:50 boyscared, are you using asdf-binary-locations? 19:29:03 boyscared: you might want to restart emacs. 19:29:38 i don't think i've set something called that 19:29:53 dkcl [n=dan@223.67.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:30:02 i'll try a quick emacs restart 19:31:05 -!- binarycodes [n=Arch@59.93.243.131] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:31:20 still a problem after restart 19:33:29 boyscared: i have some random guesses, but nothing solid. are you using debian or ubuntu? 19:33:39 boyscared: does it help if you rm -rf ~/.slime/fasl/? 19:33:42 it's the sbcl update, not the slime update that caused this i think 19:33:57 i'm using freebsd 7.0-rel 19:35:27 i move .slime/fasl out of there completely to no effect 19:35:33 moved* 19:35:51 -!- dkcl [n=dan@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 19:35:57 boyscared: where did you get slime and sbcl? 19:37:11 njsg [n=njsg@unaffiliated/njsg] has joined #lisp 19:37:18 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-240-8.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 19:37:51 *sykopomp* imagines people getting their slime+sbcl setup from a sketchy trenchcoat-clad dealer in a back alley. 19:37:51 DanielRM [n=daniel@cpc1-grim8-0-0-cust625.nott.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 19:38:08 -!- mindCrime [n=chatzill@216.27.62.2] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.82.1-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9b5/2008043010]"] 19:38:42 mine was cut with borax. 19:38:56 i tried copying my old 1.0.17 swank-sbcl.fasl file over but sbcl gives an error saying it wasn't compiled with the current version 19:39:08 fasls aren't sharable across versions 19:39:20 Xach: i installed it from the freebsd ports tree 19:39:22 boyscared: normally slime will automatically compile new fasls when needed. 19:39:27 -!- schasi [n=schasi@p54A24CA2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Verlassend"] 19:39:48 boyscared: it sounds to me like the freebsd ports version is defective in some way. are you up for testing it from slime/sbcl cvs? 19:39:50 yeah, i'm suspecting there's some setup step i did last time that i'm forgetting 19:40:09 -!- kami-` [n=user@p4FD38E0F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #lisp 19:40:51 well, if it is defective i'll just revert to 1.0.17 :) 19:41:06 but, i figured i was just forgetting to do something obvious 19:42:36 it's possible...i don't think many people here use freebsd packages. there's a general bias against distro packages in general. 19:42:42 (here) 19:43:10 so even if there's a simple, known freebsd step, probably nobody here would know it. 19:43:55 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:44:54 works really well when building from source on fbsd, though (: 19:45:33 -!- _zenon_ [n=x@c83-254-68-50.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:45:38 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 19:46:09 well, i have some free time so i'll give that a try :) 19:46:29 -!- mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-87-78-4-246.netcologne.de] has quit [] 19:48:52 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:51:13 -!- demmeln [n=demmeln@atradig112.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has left #lisp 19:51:33 fusss_ [n=irc@pool-72-66-35-198.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:52 -!- xjrn [n=jim@c-69-181-213-99.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:52:46 -!- anekos is now known as awayekos 19:53:43 Krystof: I suspect that it might be an interaction between my change in 1.0.20.25 and !defstruct-with-alternate-metaclass. 19:54:28 tritchey: Congratulations!! wow! 19:54:42 -!- fusss_ [n=irc@pool-72-66-35-198.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:54:50 Xach: what did I miss? 19:54:58 oudeis [n=oudeis@89-139-89-250.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 19:55:01 a blogging a-lister plugged kiwi 19:55:14 oh - heh - yeah 19:55:22 how much did it cost? 19:55:24 *Xach* runs 19:55:27 I was trying to think of some lisp thing 19:55:28 hehe 19:55:29 there's a blogging a-lister who codes/knows what kiwi is? 19:55:37 salex: tritchey's kiwi is an iphone app 19:55:44 isn't a kiwi a furry fruit? 19:55:52 http://redromelogic.com/kiwi 19:55:55 kreuter: I've seen it before, though 19:55:56 I don't know 19:56:00 ah, misremembered! iphone makes sense 19:56:07 actually, I just offered him a free copy, and then told him about the sale 19:56:22 Krystof: oh. in that case, I'll feel less guilty about it. 19:57:04 the "other kiwi" nobody's ever going to get the source for. heh. 19:57:11 tritchey: so you had to sign some NDA agreeing not to discuss the platform with developers? have I got that right (2nd hand)? or aren't you allowed to say that, either ? 19:57:28 ianmcorvidae: hah 19:57:36 well, agreed to the NDA by downloading the SDK, yes 19:57:47 right, ok, not signed 19:58:08 it was that term in particular that was interesting, not the existence (quelle surprise) of an NDA 19:58:26 xjrn [n=jim@c-69-181-213-99.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:30 yeah - it was pretty inane 19:58:37 bizarre 20:02:58 now I just have to work on my sbcl port to the iPhone... 20:02:58 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 20:03:38 heh, Apple would never have it. Lisp lets you do too much :P 20:03:40 surely you're not allowed? No interpreters, remember? 20:03:56 rip out the interpreter, make it compiler-only again... 20:04:34 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@89-139-89-250.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 20:04:59 Huh? No interpreters? 20:05:17 without a keyboard, i don't know how much fun hacking on the device itself woudl be 20:05:25 Should I put (in-package :cl-user) before (defpackage xxx ...) and (in-package xxx)?? It seems like some ppl do, but some don't. 20:06:14 It would be wierd for in-package to be in *package*, but not defpackage 20:06:16 tomoyuki28jp: if i were worried a lot about that, i would use (cl:defpackage ...) and (cl:in-package ...) instead 20:06:24 -!- fusss [n=irc@pool-72-66-35-198.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:06:40 tomoyuki28jp: but i don't worry about it, and just assume that the package is sane enough to allow a bare defpackage and in-package 20:07:18 *Xach* has not suffered from it yet 20:08:51 Xach: Thanks for your good advice. I agree with you, so I will probably just not to put that line. 20:09:48 tomoyuki28jp: i used to have more problems when sbcl left half-configured packages lying around when you had a bad defpackage form 20:10:14 but my sbcl patch to change it was accepted, and now i am happy most of the time 20:10:52 obsethryl [n=llort@unaffiliated/obsethryl] has joined #lisp 20:11:50 Xach: oh, I see. I didn't know the history behind. 20:12:08 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:12:39 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.110.17] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 20:13:31 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:18:29 -!- syamajala2 [n=syamajal@140.232.148.90] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:23:17 *gigamonkey* puts (in-package :cl-user) at the top of his defpackage-containiyng files. 20:23:36 gigamonkey: did you consider and reject (cl:defpackage ...)? 20:23:41 Yeah. 20:23:44 matley [n=matley@83.225.89.78] has joined #lisp 20:23:45 Why? 20:23:48 Not for any good reason, really. 20:23:51 ok 20:24:04 <_8david> somehow (in-package :cl-user) seems pointless. (cl:in-package :cl-user) I could understand. 20:24:09 My basic rationale is that every .lisp file should specify in what package it should be read. 20:24:45 Obviously, (in-package ...) only works in packages with access to cl:in-package 20:24:54 haha 20:25:08 or with a compatible in-package 20:26:00 But it's not true that (in-package :cl-user) does nothing--in the (common) case where *package* happens to have some arbitrary value but one that inherits cl:in-package it has exactly the effect you want--making sure that the rest of the file is read in a known package. 20:28:56 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:29:17 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:30:29 syamajala2 [n=syamajal@140.232.148.90] has joined #lisp 20:31:06 -!- syamajala2 [n=syamajal@140.232.148.90] has quit [Client Quit] 20:34:16 so if its an availability problem with cl:in-package, is the solution to have some sort of superglobal/builtin/reserved symbols? 20:34:45 syamajala2 [n=syamajal@140.232.148.90] has joined #lisp 20:34:47 spacebat: it's not really a problem. you can write cl:in-package wherever you feel paranoid. 20:34:55 ok 20:35:47 I'm too lazy to be paranoid these days 20:35:59 wow, keene is a quick read. 20:36:03 perl has turned my brain to mush 20:36:12 the clos book? 20:36:19 ursj/ 20:36:22 er yeah. 20:36:39 is it as good as I heard? 20:36:50 very good, thus far. 20:36:54 it's a tutorial in a space where there are few tutorials 20:37:04 just got it this morning and i'm halfway through. 20:37:16 i have a feeling the amop will not be consumed as quickly as keene's 20:37:37 keene, yeah. this may be a good time to discuss :initform vs :default-initargs :) 20:37:57 H4ns: what's the discussion? 20:38:03 And the inadvisability of MAKE-FOO style constructors. ;-) 20:38:09 she like :default-initargs over :initform because... i forgot? 20:38:35 H4ns: easier to override, I think. 20:38:35 H4ns: you can change the default initargs without recapping the slot 20:38:38 H4ns: i like that too. 20:38:40 -!- syamajala2 [n=syamajal@140.232.148.90] has quit [Client Quit] 20:38:55 hm. interesting. 20:38:57 i love all the fine points in common lisp. you can hack away for years and then have someone tell you that you did it all wrong, despite of all the working code :) 20:39:10 working code is the lowest form of debate! 20:39:10 Why is default-initargs easier to override?... 20:39:13 sounds like perl 20:39:14 next up: badness of keywords as initargs 20:39:32 Heh. 20:39:45 sykopomp: write out both forms, see for yourself. 20:39:47 *gigamonkey* remembers being in a fierce debate about keywords as initargs but can barely remember on which side. 20:39:49 inetic [n=inetic@chello082119114112.chello.sk] has joined #lisp 20:39:57 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:40:03 *bougyman* needs to read more to even understand the debate 20:40:21 make-foo constructors are bad because they look like structs? 20:40:40 Because they impede inheritance. 20:40:54 ok 20:40:58 bougyman: that is a very common lisper trick. begin discussing some very fine point with very strong arguments and see all the newbies go head scratching 20:41:06 so does literal (make-instance 'foo) in code, but we all do it 20:41:07 *H4ns* is among the headscratchers, mostly! 20:41:12 -!- tst__ [n=Tim@p4FD2D885.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 20:41:33 *Xach* waits for kiuma to write a dependency injection framework for CL 20:41:39 :D 20:41:50 Krystof: but less so, I believe because you're more likely to use the given object initialization protocol, no? 20:41:53 make-foo (class &rest initargs &key &allow-other-keys) is probably "right" FSVO"right" 20:41:59 hi there, in lisp, how do I construct a string containing "some text\r\n", and also, does "~%" always expand into LF (new line) character or is it platform dependent? 20:42:03 Or am I forgetting some subtlety? 20:42:16 so perhaps a factory implemented as a generic method is better 20:42:27 gigamonkey: dunno, I can't remember any more 20:42:28 spacebat: that's what MAKE-INSTANCE *is* 20:42:38 lol 20:42:45 I can remember my position on keywords-as-initargs, though 20:42:51 (EVIL, BAD, WRONG, CONVENIENT) 20:42:59 *gigamonkey* agrees 20:43:02 gigamonkey: very much so. 20:43:07 gigamonkey: usocket suffers from that. 20:43:25 i wanted to inherit a usocket class, but i'd have to make my own socket-connect to do so. 20:43:28 pita. 20:43:32 inetic: what do you mean when you write "\r" and "\n"? 20:43:35 Krystof: my understanding of the problem with MAKE-FOO constructors is that when you write class BAR which extends FOO then MAKE-BAR has to remember to call MAKE-FOO assuming MAKE-FOO does anything interesting. 20:43:58 that's the exact problem I ran into with usocket. 20:44:09 Xach, i mean a carriage return followed by new line ASCII characters 20:44:26 as opposed to make-instance 'usocket:socket-stream you do usocket:socket-connect to create an instance of an (attached) usocket:socket-stream 20:44:34 Whereas with MAKE-INSTANCE you put the interesting stuff in an INITIALIZE-INSTANCE :after method and CLOS takes care of it for you. 20:44:35 making usocket:socket-stream not very inheritable. 20:44:38 josemanuel [n=josemanu@171.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 20:44:44 rvirding [n=chatzill@h235n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 20:44:47 inetic: lisp doesn't specify that it uses ascii for things like that. different implementations do different things for the end of line (usually, but not always, in line with what the platform specifies for text files) 20:44:48 whereas make-instance gets around that and chains inherited initialization somehow? 20:44:55 kreuter: ok, the warning is coming from maybe-update-info-for-gf, which is perhaps why I'm seeing it now 20:45:02 ok 20:45:04 yes, spacebat. 20:45:05 kreuter: but I'm fairly sure it's not your fault, it's mine 20:45:08 oh, that's different. 20:45:18 Xach: but for most network protocols, you need to use \r\n literally. 20:45:35 foom: i would tend to use binary data for network protocols 20:45:36 inetic: you can more or less do that with (format nil "~c~c" (char-code #\Return) (char-code #\Linefeed)) 20:45:43 Not guaranteed but likely to work. 20:45:46 *rvirding* says good evening everyone 20:45:54 rread [n=rread@192.18.41.196] has joined #lisp 20:45:54 hi rv 20:46:13 foom: Having done some network lisp programming, I totally agree with Xach 20:46:15 it would have been much better if there were an implementation of socket-connect that worked on an instance of usocket:socket-stream 20:46:36 then having socket-connect return a new instance of usocket:socket-stream each time. 20:46:36 Xach, gigamonkey, thanks I do actualy want to implement a retarded HTTP protocol (just as excersize) 20:47:02 inetic: if the character set supports the characters #\Return and #\Linefeed should be the names of the characters you want. But there's no guarantee that all Lisp's are running with a charecter set that has those characters. 20:47:08 But all the ones you are likely to care about will. 20:47:20 inetic: i'm doing something like that, and i'm working with vectors of octets and not pretending the stuff going out or coming in over the wire is lisp characters (but i am using lisp characters to generate parts of the request, and to make binary octet pattern matches against the response) 20:47:25 Krystof: which system does the warning occur in? 20:47:29 you never know when you might want to run on a IBM mainframe in an EBCDIC character set! 20:47:37 bougyman: usocket inherits from all kinds of implementation provided networking libraries, object oriented and not object oriented 20:47:39 *bougyman* runs one of those 20:47:39 inetic: What Xach just said is also wise. 20:47:51 foom: and when you do, SBCL has the external format for you! 20:47:52 H4ns: i assumed that. 20:47:54 Just because HTTP looks texty doesn't mean it's not really a binary protocol. 20:47:56 -!- pixel5 [n=pixel@copei.de] has quit ["klapse..."] 20:48:03 H4ns: that doesn't obviate the design change I proposed. 20:48:04 kreuter: does it? i tried to use ebcdic and got an error. 20:48:09 kreuter: I (finally) have a self-contained test case 20:48:14 that's what I've been doing the last hour 20:48:26 start a clean sbcl, and do (sb-pcl::ensure-ctor 'foo 'foo nil nil) 20:48:53 Xach, gigamonkey, so translated to a lisp-noob language that means that you are writing binary data to the socket? 20:49:01 Xach: really? I demoed ebcdic at the first ECLM 20:49:15 it is true that ebcdic doesn't work with string-to-octets 20:49:25 Krystof: it's certainly possible i don't know how to request it. the error message wasn't clear, iirc. 20:49:29 inetic: yes. One of Edi-Weitz's fine libraries will probably take care of most of this for you. 20:49:36 bougyman: just use delegation and be done with it. or layer a stream class above the stream provided. inheritance of classes coming out of libraries is not all that common in lisp 20:49:58 inetic: because think about it, after you send the HTTP headers you might be sending JPEG data or something which had certainly better be dealt with as octets. 20:50:02 bougyman: you'll find that many libraries do not support subclassing by clients. 20:50:16 H4ns: in my personal case, it's because i find it hard to document the protocols 20:50:22 H4ns: that seems to be one of the advantages to using defclass over defstruct, weird. 20:50:26 Xach: hmp 20:50:31 Where "octets" is how Lispers talk about "bytes" because we have inherited a historically-dead-ended definition of the word "byte". 20:50:42 the ability so subclass libraries to cherry pick behavior and all that. 20:50:48 hey now. we're not alone. network people know what an octet is. 20:50:53 b/c byte is not necessarily 8 20:50:55 Xach: :ebcdic-us, I think 20:50:57 gigamonkey: and also a historically-dead-ended definition of character! 20:51:02 Krystof: ok. i'll give it a shot. 20:51:03 Xach, gigamonkey, got it, many thanks 20:51:08 bougyman: i'm not all that convinced that subclassing is a good strategy for that. 20:51:11 Xach: tru dat. 20:51:34 kreuter: I prefer to think we have a historically-resurgent definition of character. 20:51:35 *Xach* was able to expose classes in salza2 mostly because they were so simple 20:52:11 bougyman: i find myself implementing object oriented models and reference other models, but seldomly subclass things that i don't wrote. in fact, i use subclassing sparingly. 20:52:14 kreuter: but since the warning comes from generic-function-p on a ctor, I think you're in the clear 20:52:17 *Xach* actually has a simple proof-of-concept polyglot http client for 5 lisps in about 500 lines, is trying to use it to bootstrap into chipz and archive, and from there, the world. 20:52:56 in french octet is the official word for byte, too :) 20:53:10 way to go, france. 20:53:23 *Xach* can't wait to download some megaoctets of logiciels 20:53:33 heh 20:53:42 S11001001 [n=sirian@74-137-146-187.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 20:53:58 s/download/telecharge/ 20:54:08 Krystof: wait, and it only happens the first time any CTOR is constructed? 20:54:26 also, ordinator 20:55:18 aka transfert en aval (gulp) 20:55:34 oudeis [n=oudeis@89-139-89-250.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 20:56:30 kreuter: yes, it's in the creation of the allocation form 20:56:51 Is there a function like multiple-value-bind for a list? I want to write like this. (multiple-value-bind (a b c) '("a" "b" "c") ... ) 20:56:57 kreuter: the basic problem I think is that the !defstruct-with-alternate ... creates something which PCL thinks should be a structure-class 20:56:58 H4ns: I suspect it takes a lot more effort to provide a really sensible (and solid) interface via subclassing. 20:57:05 tomoyuki28jp: destructuring-bind 20:57:26 dlowe: Thanks! 20:57:38 salex: true, but i think it also holds that often, there is no hierarchy and so there is no subclassing. 20:57:43 which then wants to create said structure-class, which generates an allocate-instance method (or maybe the class-prototype), which causes the lying form to be compiled 20:57:56 hm. 20:57:59 H4ns: agreed. 20:58:03 it's a bit of a tangled mess 20:58:04 salex: i'm not meaning to say that object oriented programming is useless. it is just not universal. 20:59:06 I would have guessed the same would probably happen with %method-function, I think 20:59:16 -!- nullwork_ [n=nullwork@c-24-245-23-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:59:16 -!- nullwork [n=kyle@c-24-245-23-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:59:20 tomoyuki28jp: if you're doing something more complicated (think of building an interpreter), you might also need progv 20:59:29 nullwork [n=kyle@c-24-245-23-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:32 H4ns: not universal, and sometimes awfully grungy when someone tries to make it fit 20:59:32 -!- silenius [n=jl@fuckup.club.berlin.ccc.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:59:43 hmm speaking of subclassing, if one would be to design a widget kit, and a clear hierarchy of derived classes can be devised, would there still be a possible alternative to implement it as cleanly? 20:59:46 oh, and since I'm calling generic-function-p whenever a function gets looked up, that will force this to occur more frequently. 20:59:47 one disadvantage to all-the-worlds-an-object languages, that. 21:00:07 without subclassing that is 21:00:13 kreuter: actually even just (find-class 'sb-pcl::ctor) gives the warning 21:00:29 and likewise (find-class 'sb-pcl::%method-function) 21:00:36 -!- deximer [n=deximer@168.203.117.66] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:00:50 probably the solution is to invent sb-pcl::funcallable-structure-class 21:00:57 but now, bedtime 21:01:06 good night 21:01:07 Hun: I will look into it. Thanks. > progv 21:02:36 be aware that it might be here-be-dragons-territory if you're doing something simple :) 21:03:13 -!- travisjeffery [n=eatsleep@user130-2.wireless.utoronto.ca] has quit [No route to host] 21:03:32 night kreuter 21:03:32 -!- jazen [n=blah@77.20.240.183] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:03:34 erm, Krystof 21:04:24 nullwork_ [n=nullwork@c-24-245-23-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:06:20 -!- davazp [n=user@77.Red-83-54-164.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:06:57 jazen [n=blah@77.20.240.183] has joined #lisp 21:07:21 drewc: did you find ehu's (Erik) mail request concerning common-lisp.net svn accounts for me and others? 21:07:55 -!- gonzojive [n=red@rescomp-08-102861.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 21:08:21 V-ille: did you send that to RT or the admin@list ? 21:08:35 sely__ [n=rps@c-24-7-206-73.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:43 drewc: i'll just go ahead and change the alias right away, ok? 21:08:44 drewc: I sent to admin 21:09:41 H4ns: yeah, lets do that. 21:10:08 jk_ [n=jochem@jkossen.nl] has joined #lisp 21:10:14 drewc: where's RT? 21:10:47 -!- FufieToo [n=punchbal@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:14:25 -!- matley [n=matley@83.225.89.78] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:15:06 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B16B47F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:15:12 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@chello062178150152.7.14.univie.teleweb.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:16:29 I have a question about the CL REPL 21:17:04 Is it defined about ordering of functions and macros and how that affects evaluation? 21:17:38 Example if I define macro foo and then function bar which calls foo ... 21:18:17 if I then redefine macro foo, which macro will be used when I call bar? Ther before or after one? 21:18:35 before 21:18:45 rvirding: the macro is not "called", but "expanded" 21:18:48 the macro is expanded when the defun is parsed 21:19:15 minion: tell me about logs 21:19:15 S11001001: look at logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ ; older logs may be available at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (down as of 2008/09/24) 21:19:17 h4ns: whatever 21:19:27 if you wanted bar to reflect the changes, you'd have to recompile/interpret it 21:19:40 tried it in GNU-CL and it took the most recent 21:19:41 rvirding: it's not whatever; there's a fundamental difference 21:19:56 talking about interpreted and defined in REPL 21:20:07 rvirding: no, this is an important point. the defun expands the macros, in fact it is a macro itself. thus, whatever you define the macro to after it has been expanded does not affect that. 21:20:13 I know I know, but I know what I mean 21:20:16 -!- sely_ [n=rps@c-24-7-206-73.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:20:54 GNU CL takes what is defined when function is called, in REPL, and I was wondering if this is defined anywhere 21:21:12 -!- H4ns [n=hans@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has left #lisp 21:21:16 H4ns [n=hans@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 21:21:24 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 21:21:45 -!- jk [n=jochem@jkossen.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:21:55 -!- njsg [n=njsg@unaffiliated/njsg] has quit ["gone, sweeties"] 21:21:57 *H4ns* ponders whether the repl behavior may be unspecified regarding that. 21:22:27 many lisps compile on the fly, so they always use the definition that was in place while compiling. 21:22:54 gonzojive [n=red@DNab422437.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 21:22:55 and if you compile it, i'd suspect it's defined 21:23:15 but interpreters may have enough freedom to use current macro. interesting 21:23:16 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@171.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 21:23:28 *defined s/b *well defined 21:23:29 if i do: 21:23:31 (defmacro foo (a) (print (list 'foo 1 a)) `'(foo 1 ,a)) 21:23:33 (defun bar (x) (foo x)) 21:23:34 (defmacro foo (a) (print (list 'foo 2 a)) `'(foo 2 ,a)) 21:23:35 I see 21:23:37 (FOO 2 X) 21:23:43 rvirding: please don't do that 21:23:51 in GNU- CL 21:23:58 1) we understood what you meant 2) use lisppaste for pasting 21:23:59 really? 21:23:59 don't do what? 21:24:02 that's weird 21:24:15 what's gnu-cl, anyway? 21:24:19 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 21:24:19 minion, tell rvirding about lisppaste 21:24:37 know about lisppaste but this was really short 21:24:49 I know of gcl and clisp, but what's gnu-cl ? 21:25:14 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@h-188-232.A189.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:25:38 It says GNU Common Lisp on the icon 21:25:39 Isn't something related to that why CMUCL returns t for compiled-function-p on not-actually-compiled functions? 21:26:03 probably what you meant with GCL 21:26:04 rvirding: what if you compile bar before changing foo? 21:26:33 btw, SBCL has the same behavior in its interpreter. 21:26:38 haven't tried compiling, then it should use first one of course. 21:27:11 but interested in interpreted version, rolling a REPL for LFE and want to know what the rest do 21:27:30 the trick is many REPLs are actually just compilers 21:27:36 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:27:48 rvirding: i think for interpreter it is proper to macroexpand only at execution time and not store macroexpanded (garbled) code. 21:28:44 (from a "what makes sense" perspective) 21:28:54 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-2-50.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:29:35 ok, thanks 21:30:29 prxq [n=mommer@Yb2ef.y.pppool.de] has joined #lisp 21:30:36 dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:30:36 hi 21:31:27 H4ns: the interpreter in abcl works that way. 21:32:14 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@dslb-082-083-082-085.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:32:19 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 21:32:20 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 21:32:26 what? abcl interpreter gives (FOO 1 X), as does clisp 21:32:30 -!- Paraselene__ [n=None@79-68-228-157.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [No route to host] 21:33:08 rvirding: for LFE, everything's coiled, isn't it? 21:33:11 *compiled 21:33:12 from my "what makes sense" perspective, the code should yield identical results whether interpreted or compiled 21:33:43 V-ille: sbcl does the same 21:33:55 *rsynnott* remembers reading about some horrible old thing which had lexical or dynamic binding depening on whether compiled or interpreted 21:34:08 i guess it comes down to what freedom the interpreter has wrt read time 21:34:17 V-ille: you might want the interpreter to be more dynamic than the compiler. I am pretty sure lispm has had an argument for that in the past 21:34:24 yes, erlang VM only knows about compiled code, but I think it would be cool to be able to define functions in REPL, test them interpreted and then save module to file 21:34:28 doesn't GCL run in a non-ansi-compliant mode as standard, actually 21:34:28 ? 21:34:38 *salex* studiously avoids grovelling the spec to try and sort it out 21:34:53 rvirding: can't you just compile on the fly? 21:35:01 foom: you claim sbcl does the same? mine doesn't/ 21:35:13 that would seem the obvious thing to do, as it's what erlang does for erlang 21:35:15 salex: he said "sbcl interpreter" 21:35:22 well, I suppose the spec only says that defun body is evaluated when executed 21:35:26 well perhaps, but you can't compile functions only modules 21:35:29 salex, the default sbcl repl isn't the interpreter 21:35:38 I take executed to mean that macros are already expanded 21:35:44 ah, right, of course 21:36:06 rvirding: AIUI, Bla = fun(X) -> X + 1 end. gives you a compiled function 21:36:42 actually, the spec says the implicit progn in defun is "executed when the function is called" 21:36:45 yes, but no, it's a hack 21:36:55 in erlang eval as well 21:37:37 V-ille, but executed and compiled are different right 21:37:51 you want that to be a compiled function so you can pass it to other code, for example map, so you do a real dirty 21:38:10 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:19 yes. I suppose interpreter can behave differently, but for these kind of cases I definitely wouldn't want it to. 21:38:36 you return a built in fun evaluator function with the code as a free variable which then interprets it when it is called 21:39:05 so you get a compiled function which calls intepreter 21:39:41 rvirding: evil, but kind of beautiful :) 21:40:04 yes, I know I wrote it. 21:40:08 maybe I should've said eval instead of evil :) 21:40:20 hehh 21:40:33 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:40:52 hehe 21:41:09 -!- gonzojive [n=red@DNab422437.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 21:45:18 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-102-97.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 21:45:20 from discussion seems better to *expand* what you have at function call time, for REPL anyway 21:45:43 for interpreted REPL anyway 21:45:45 erg [n=erg@li13-154.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 21:45:49 compiler takes what is defined when compiling function 21:46:14 have another question now about macros when compiling. 21:47:09 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless119.cs.wisc.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:47:39 -!- rread [n=rread@192.18.41.196] has quit [] 21:48:10 I have been looking at set-dispatch-macro-character in clhs and can't find a specification for what should happen when the FN given is NIL. Intuition says that it should delete the character, but I want to be clear. 21:48:22 I now do 2 macro prepasses in compiler 21:48:24 first pass collects macros expanding just enough to detect them 21:48:25 second pass expands all macros and generates basic functions which are then compiled 21:48:41 lurcio [n=marc@itsnotnormal.plus.com] has joined #lisp 21:48:44 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:48:46 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has quit [Client Quit] 21:48:56 is it more common to collect and expand in one pass? 21:49:14 IMO, one should see identical behavior in a REPL, regardless of whether it uses an interpreter or a compiler. But that's just me. 21:49:24 I'd agree with that 21:49:34 the other way seems like it could be terribly confusing 21:49:54 reason I ask is that I don't want to add needless differences with what is "standard" 21:50:12 no, actually eaier to implement 21:50:17 easier* 21:52:00 sbt [i=80fd9c63@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-9124866a070bf17b] has joined #lisp 21:52:04 hi, does anybody know if it's possible to expand the floating-point precision in SBCL 21:52:55 -!- H4ns [n=hans@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:53:33 sbt: do you mean, are there arbitray precision floats built into sbcl? then no. If you mean using double-float rather than float, sure. 21:53:51 hm 21:54:08 I'm not sure what I'm using to be honest 21:54:23 what problem are you running into? 21:54:33 and if you want to show a bit of code, use lisppaste 21:54:35 I'm trying to multiply small numbers and I'm experiencing underflow at around e-43 21:55:00 and modifying my app to do everything in log space is going to take some time 21:55:18 you really need that many orders? 21:55:20 I was wondering if it was possible to get SBCL to deal with numbers that are smaller than this, automatically 21:55:34 yes :) 21:55:51 belief propagation in graphical models 21:56:20 what are the largest you're dealing with? 21:56:34 not sure yet, but probably around e-60 21:56:52 +ve, you mean? 21:57:16 +ve? 21:57:45 SBCL seems to peak out at 2.999e-42 21:57:48 I asked you what the largest numbers you're dealing with were, and you gave me something smaller 21:58:02 oh, largest, 1 I suppose 21:58:28 can you work in 1/x ? 21:58:35 plutonas [n=plutonas@h-188-232.A189.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 21:58:46 it would be easier 21:58:49 sbt: then you aren't using an awful lot of the representation, was my point 21:59:01 I see 21:59:39 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@41.247.195.116] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:00:01 but I don't see how that's gonna help, SBCL seems to handle up to about e38 22:00:44 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-102-97.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:01:09 well if you work in the inverse space, you will be able to use bignum integers and have arbitrary precision 22:01:34 there are various ways to get around this, you can rescale your problem, you can use a mapping, you can use an integer represenation (like 1/x) and use bignums 22:02:11 if you want a drop-in code replacement, you'll need arb. prec. ( non hardware) float package probably, but gcl is the only one I know of that does that 22:02:12 ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has joined #lisp 22:02:31 ok, this sounds like probably just as much work as going all the way with log space. 22:02:48 just remember, numerical methods are fun. 22:02:58 heh :) 22:03:04 right 22:03:04 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-102-97.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 22:03:13 ok, thanks anyway 22:03:55 -!- vasa [n=vasa@mm-42-94-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 22:04:49 i'm writing data to a file with format and with-open-file, shouldn't the output stream be flushed when with-open-file ends? 22:08:28 yep 22:08:40 think so 22:11:42 *sykopomp* cries manly tears as bknr checks out from svn 22:11:52 *sykopomp* gets flashbacks of compiling ironclad 22:12:09 -!- salex [n=user@216.80.143.240] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:12:17 -!- antgreen [n=green@localhostlocaldomain.wbb.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:14:13 ironclad compiles in 7.1 seconds for me 22:16:06 stassats: fresh compile? 22:16:32 and that's on CCL, not sbcl 22:16:32 I think it took like 20 minutes to compile the first time I loaded it up. 22:16:36 ah 22:16:47 fusss [n=irc@pool-72-66-35-198.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:16:51 on sbcl it tooks 47.300 seconds of real time 22:17:41 "tooks"? 22:18:14 Fool of a Took! 22:18:38 -!- ehu [i=52aa21ad@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-1034596eac717d91] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 22:19:01 yeah, takes 22:19:42 english is harder than lisp 22:19:44 *rvirding* says good nght 22:19:49 -!- rvirding [n=chatzill@h235n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 22:22:16 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@89-139-89-250.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:22:41 oh god. bknr's datastore actually requires hunchentoot :< 22:22:52 rread [n=rread@192.18.41.196] has joined #lisp 22:22:53 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:23:22 sykopomp: eek. What on earth does it use it for? 22:24:46 it's in the bknr.utils system 22:24:59 so I guess it's a common util thing that just requires it :< 22:25:08 I'll have to ask h4ns if I can sever that... 22:26:32 -!- rread [n=rread@192.18.41.196] has quit [Client Quit] 22:27:45 -!- teilzeitstudent [n=teilzeit@dslb-082-083-032-159.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:27:58 -!- prxq [n=mommer@Yb2ef.y.pppool.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:29:31 isn't bknr a web application framework? maybe it targets hunchentoot instead of .. anything else 22:30:16 fusss: yeah, but the datastore module in it works separately from the core framework. I thought it was separated more, but I guess I have to check what's safe to take out. 22:30:51 possibly it's using hunchentooit's thread abstraction 22:30:55 someone recommended "elephant" to me here a week ago and i'm a happy customer 22:31:06 elephant's pretty impressive, yep :) 22:31:15 then rip it out and call it ht-threads, duh 22:31:52 I think that may actually have been done 22:32:06 it definitely has a public interface 22:32:18 i have elephant persisting entire http sessions. hunchentoot sessions are delicious: i'm generating flash at run time based on user feedback and things are sweet :-) 22:32:45 fusss: I was going to go with elephant, but I think I'd rather use a log-based prevalence system, since my objects can all fit in memory, and I need fast access to them. 22:33:14 as a matter of interest, which backend are you using? 22:33:54 sykopomp: elephant has an in-memory pset store :-) a fast cachable btree backend, and direct berkeley db storage: you can move everything to a RDBMS without change :-) 22:34:15 I'm using it with clsql/mysql 22:34:35 did you try with bdb as well? 22:34:53 -!- sbt [i=80fd9c63@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-9124866a070bf17b] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 22:35:01 just downloaded it earlier. my slackware comes with 4.2 and elephant requires 4.5. 22:35:08 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:35:28 fusss: I don't know what a pset store is :| 22:35:41 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483F767.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:35:47 -!- lurcio [n=marc@itsnotnormal.plus.com] has quit [] 22:35:57 I''ve this irrational fear of using bdb in production stuff 22:36:14 basically you make your clos classes inherit from the pset class and they automatically become persistant. 22:36:49 yeoh [n=chatzill@104.156.111.218.klj03-home.tm.net.my] has joined #lisp 22:37:06 S11001001: does your patch in http://trac.clozure.com/openmcl/ticket/339 correspond to the latest version of the proposal? 22:37:17 difference between pset and btree, IIRC, is performance. psets are persistant and heavily kept in memory (a worker threads does copy on write I think.) while btree back end is written upon creation and modification. 22:38:04 but elephant still does disk-writes in a database for every slot change >_> 22:38:21 bknr just makes a small log-write for any transactions 22:38:21 gz: No, it does not. 22:38:31 just how many writes per second do you want to handle? :) 22:38:44 sykopomp: per transaction, I think 22:38:47 gz: He talked to me, and said he wanted me to publish the draft first, so he's got something to point at. 22:39:12 tcr: If somebody puts in the final patch, I'll check it in. 22:39:29 premature optimization me thinks :-P 22:39:35 -!- inetic [n=inetic@chello082119114112.chello.sk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:39:46 rsynnott: I could conceivably have about 500,000-1mil objects handled by the database (all fairly small), and somewhere around a couple hundred writes per second, maybe. I don't really know what kind of load I might end up with. 22:40:00 -!- yeoh [n=chatzill@104.156.111.218.klj03-home.tm.net.my] has quit [Client Quit] 22:40:02 not so much premature optimization as having a bunch of choices, all looking about the same 22:40:11 I looked at elephant, rucksack, bknr, and cl-prevalence 22:40:39 asked about all of them, couldn't really figure a huge difference between them, but bknr looks quite solid, it's actively used, and I can get support for it in this channel. 22:40:41 -!- booyaa [n=booyaa@adsl-67-121-157-251.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:40:42 So I went with that 22:40:47 gz: Thanks. 22:40:58 elephant was my second choice, but it was pretty up in the air 22:41:18 do the general interface, and change backend when needed 22:41:52 stassats: I pretty much have that right now, I just need to adapt my lower-level code to use it. 22:42:04 stassats: I was serializing stuff with cl-store 22:42:29 which worked nice for just writing everything else, but not so much when you want to have actual persistence, or ignore transient slots. 22:43:23 -!- holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:43:35 dbbddbdb_ [n=dbbddbdb@77.41.74.86] has joined #lisp 22:44:30 jao [n=user@129.Red-83-42-110.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:01 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@68.237.108.78] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:48:02 Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has joined #lisp 22:53:50 -!- alec [n=aberryma@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["eaten by grue"] 22:56:02 -!- dbbddbdb [n=dbbddbdb@77.41.74.86] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:00:48 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:01:43 blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:01:50 -!- vcgomes is now known as vcgomes[away] 23:02:03 H4ns [n=hans@72-255-21-189.client.stsn.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:29 tcr: I'm composing a reply to your cdr-discuss post at the moment 23:02:32 replor_ [n=replor@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:02:49 (this is what my question above about set-dispatch-macro-character was about) 23:07:11 -!- blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 23:08:08 I have also requested an extension to the specification. 23:11:04 S11001001: I'm looking forward to it. 23:11:17 oh, I posted it 23:12:49 hmmm, LIST-ALL-PACKAGES should return its result REVERSEd by default 23:13:07 that sounds specific 23:14:09 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 23:15:03 gz: Something is unclear to me; can I write macros in level1 that, though not expanded there, rely on functions defined in lib? 23:19:01 -!- replor [n=replor@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:19:56 S11001001: yes. 23:20:04 S11001001: That should be OK. 23:20:06 H4ns: ping 23:20:13 sykopomp: hm? 23:20:32 travisjeffery [n=eatsleep@user64-159.vicres.utoronto.ca] has joined #lisp 23:21:03 H4ns: just loaded up bknr.datastore. It depents on bknr.util, which depends on hunchentoot at some level. I'm not sure if that's necessary if I only want to use the datastore module 23:21:10 tcr: er, I don't see any specification of what the MACRO-CHAR-TYPES argument is for 23:21:22 or if there's any other stuff that I won't need if I'm only using datastore. 23:22:35 sykopomp: i'm not using the datastore standalone, but i can look into that, hold on. 23:23:14 sykopomp: "hold on" as in "give me a few minutes to decide whether i can fix it" 23:23:23 take your time, no hurry. 23:23:38 But it would be nice to start limiting dependencies at this point. I'm already pulling in like half of cl.net haha. 23:23:58 and thank you :) 23:24:09 sykopomp: my aproach to this problem is "svn co svn://bknr.net/svn/trunk" and not worry 23:24:26 yeah, I mean, I have no problems getting it to work 23:24:41 sykopomp: so what is the issue? 23:24:58 that I'm going to require hunchentoot for an app that isn't a webserver at all :P 23:25:31 sykopomp: yeah. like the 'dc' command that is installed with your proper unix and that you'll never use. 23:25:51 *H4ns* uses it, but he feels being part of a minority 23:26:25 S11001001: Oops, I completely forgot about that. 23:26:39 well, it's really not that big a deal, but it just means I have something completely unrelated as a dependency >_> 23:27:02 Zilatica [n=Zilatica@ppp-70-246-94-44.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:27:04 -!- Zilatica [n=Zilatica@ppp-70-246-94-44.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:28:12 -!- bpr [n=user@cpe-72-226-72-222.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:28:52 -!- replor_ [n=replor@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [No route to host] 23:28:55 ok, i replaced the dependency on hunchentoot by dependencies on :flexi-streams and :bordeaux-threads, no big deal 23:29:18 wow, thank you! 23:29:40 gah, need to check in, gimmeaminute 23:30:44 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:14 *#@!(#@* 23:32:33 S11001001: I'm busy right now. I'll deal with it tomorrow. 23:33:14 sykopomp: ok, you're good. let me know if you have further issues. 23:33:29 thanks a bunch :-o 23:35:47 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 23:36:21 -!- Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:38:22 oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-82-81-140-18.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 23:42:04 mozzyb [n=mozzyb@180.84-48-169.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 23:42:25 -!- mozzyb [n=mozzyb@180.84-48-169.nextgentel.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:44:56 -!- obsethryl [n=llort@unaffiliated/obsethryl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:46:29 cmsimon [n=Casey_Da@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 23:46:43 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 23:51:09 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-151-204-138-99.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:41 arquebus [i=naos@201.160.5.139.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has joined #lisp 23:53:44 -!- arquebus [i=naos@201.160.5.139.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has left #lisp 23:58:22 -!- quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:58:43 quek [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp