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If you're seeing things like PLISTP show up in profiling output, you're likely doing a lot of GETFs. Why are you doing lots of GETFs ? 20:40:36 sellout- [~Adium@c-71-56-237-160.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #ccl 20:41:51 gbyers: i have lots of short property lists. 20:44:01 I won't ask why ... Part of the idea of checking that a plist was a proper plist before cdring through it is that that cdring could be done without typechecking. 20:47:43 gbyers: i have many game objects whose position, size, appearance etc are stored in a plist (:x 1 :y 2 :width 20 ... 20:48:52 and most are very short. 20:49:02 and they are often created/discarded 20:50:11 in any case this is something that performs great on sbcl and I'm just trying to get it to stop calling PLISTP because i have players who are getting a frame rate issue while running the game for their forum contest 20:50:20 sorry it's a long story. 20:50:23 thanks for helping gbyers . 20:50:24 dto: I suppose you could write my-getf that doesn't check to see if the the plist is a proper plist. 20:50:42 rme: the declarations seem cleaner, i'll try it and if that works, i can avoid rolling my own :) 20:51:03 But ccl isn't going to do anything with the declarations. 20:51:13 oh. 20:51:32 And this has something to do with PLISTP, and not the runtime typechecking that was in the profiling output you sent a few weeks ago ? 20:53:12 i did have some assertions that ended up being more expensive on CCL. 20:53:36 Do you know why they were expensive 20:53:38 however that wasn't enough---now PLISTP seems to be the culprit, along with LIST-LENGTH (which it calls) 20:53:38 ? 20:54:28 Declarations are promises that you make to the compiler. Sometimes the compiler can make use of those promises, and sometimes it can't. 20:54:45 i know. 20:55:11 You're seeing a lot of plistp because you're doing a lot of getf. Every time you do getf, there will be a call to plistp. 20:55:12 i was expressing surprise because i thought gbyers was saying that (SATISFIES PLISTP) would actually do something. 20:55:36 I was being sarcastic, or trying to ... 20:56:16 please treat me as uniquely unable to get lisper humor. 20:56:39 So, I think the easiest thing for you to try is to write my-getf. 20:56:57 Or define a compiler-macro on GETF. 20:56:58 okay :) 20:58:14 Wouldn't hurt to do that anyway, though I'm not sure who'd benefit. You know how to do that ? 20:58:42 haven't done compiler-macros before. just regular macros. 20:58:51 Very similar. 20:58:55 gbyers: btw, have you seen the game that this is for? 20:59:22 No. I generally don't look at games, sorry. 20:59:57 np. 21:00:04 Ideally, you'd use a more suitable data structure than plists... 21:00:52 But, maybe my-getf would help enough. 21:05:35 the question is how well ccl performs with zillions of 6-element hashes 21:06:03 If you're doing nothing but GETF, I suppose that that'd affect frame rate. 21:06:48 I'm really skeptical that that's the issue, but may be wrong. 21:06:58 i'll find out shortly! 21:16:27 -!- dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:56:47 gbyers: users can't conformingly define compiler macros on CL functions. 21:57:06 Dear god what an idiot. 21:57:24 For all we know, you may have as an implementer already defined one! 21:57:45 And that's why I suggested that he do so. Dear fucking god. 21:58:14 you or any other implementer. You don't seem to get the notion of conformance. 21:59:38 He isn't worried about conformance or portability; he's trying to find out why his program's running slow. He apparently lives in the real world, which gives him a distinct advantage over you. 22:00:16 :-) 22:00:19 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 22:00:35 What possible good do you think that you're doing ? 22:01:37 If the implementation is bad (too slow), instead of asking users to write compiler macros, you should correct it. If you don't want to, then we must take the role of implementer, and rewrite the wrong functions. But in most cases, this won't involve a compiler-macro, just rewriting or patching the wrong function. 22:03:07 Dear god. He doesn't know what's slow. Defining a compiler macro on GETF would tell him that GETF isn't the problem. This is one of those things that is true whether you understand it or not, one of many such things. 22:04:37 gbyers: read again, if you meant that he should write a compiler macro to perform some kind of profiling, this meaning was absolutely not conveyed by your words in the discussion. 22:04:54 If I haven't forgotten more than you'll ever know about CL conformance, something would have to be very wrong somewhere, wouldn't it ? It isn't. 22:05:45 What ? 22:06:18 Read again 11.1.2.1.2 point 3 and 11.1.2.1.2.1 22:07:47 You're right; I was suggesting that he violate the spec to see if that was really the problem. Thank god you caught that, so he wouldn't know if that was the problem. You can't really be this stupid; no one could be. 22:12:11 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-71-56-237-160.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:17:20 dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #ccl 22:29:16 -!- dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:21:55 -!- pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-14-160.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: reboot] 23:58:42 dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #ccl 23:59:24 -!- dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]