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[~DataLinkD@1.130.244.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:31:29 and fbsd smarts? 05:33:02 *consolers* trying to install fbsd 9.1 via vbox onto a raw 2nd MBR physical partition with a5 type, with a nested freebsd-ufs partition, but nested partitions are lost after a reboot 05:33:47 -!- alms_ [~alms_@209-6-130-32.c3-0.bkl-ubr1.sbo-bkl.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: alms_] 05:33:56 q. confirm that bootcode and partition schemes only work with gpt? 05:38:23 if the whole idea behind package local packagenames would be to use by the library vendor consortiums to work around the interoperability guarantees from the CL spec 05:40:31 the whole anti-hook argument is dubious and reinforces consolidation agenda in favour of the specific libvendors 05:47:12 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@110.151.135.138] has joined #ccl 05:47:55 the employees of the sepecific vendors being set-up to voice "convenience issues" in this jury-rigging game 05:50:02 in fact i wouldnt doubt they were employed 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[~dioxirane@gateway/tor-sasl/pnpuff] has joined #ccl 17:24:56 I wish WJ on comp.lang.lisp would at least refrain from the belittling insults. 17:26:15 WJ? 17:27:18 I do no see more anything on comp.lang.lisp (: 17:27:55 rme: comments on the description? 17:29:40 faheem: I don't object. The first paragraph of http://ccl.clozure.com is the blurb that I tend to use, but your description is fine. 17:29:44 rme: so i'm sure that i do not waste my time. 17:30:06 pnpuff: No doubt. 17:33:56 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:54:57 i'm downloading ccl release 1.8 by means of anonymous ftp. There is a limitation on download speed? -thanks- 17:59:33 pnpuff: I didn't know there was any such limitation. 18:03:45 The machine is at a data center in Dallas, Texas. As far as I know, there are no bandwidth throttles that restrict speed. 18:10:13 average download "speed" of 53.3 KB/s to download 41.2M.. (13m 11s required) 18:14:45 pnpuff: Have you tried traceroute to see if there's a slow connection in between? 18:23:31 sellout-: why not tracert? 18:24:20 pnpuff: That's just the Windows spelling of traceroute. Same thing. 18:25:46 sellout-: but you have not asked me for the OS I use now. 18:26:05 pnpuff: Let's not get ridiculous here. 18:26:06 pnpuff: Because it's not relevant  18:26:43 but for the answer yes, was relevant ... 18:27:23 pnpuff: "traceroute" is the name of a thing to do. On Window's the command is spelled "tracert", on Unix it's spelled "traceroute". 18:27:58 *Windows 18:28:40 sellout-: I know. but "trace the route" maybe is OS independent 18:34:44 anyway: what is the simplest way to run ccl on a non supported platform? 18:36:31 rme: ridiculous? why? .. explain me .. i'm intersted 18:42:28 -!- sellout- [~Adium@67.51.227.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:43:17 so WJ is not the only.. if you insult me freely. 18:47:26 sellout- [~Adium@67.51.227.94] has joined #ccl 18:49:54 rme: ok, i could merge that first para into the description. 18:54:56 i wonder if saying ccl has an integrated debugger is really informative. don't all CL implementations have one? 18:57:04 *gbyers* 's head hurts 18:57:14 -!- gbyers [~gb@c-68-35-55-248.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has left #ccl 18:57:23 faheem: (: better do not assume/suppose nothing (.. to no create suspects!) 18:58:06 this is a comic channel maybe.. good! 18:59:36 faheem: Of course it's informative  1, the spec does not specify a debugger and 2, people new to CL might not be aware that it's something you should expect in any decent implementation (and of course, there are indecent implementations out there). 19:03:20 sellout-: ok 19:04:12 ok, i'm merging what I already have with the blurb on the page. is it also worth saying it implements all the features in the ANSI specification? 19:12:21 -!- sellout- [~Adium@67.51.227.94] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:13:04 would it be correct to say CCL is a complete implementation of the ANSI specification? 19:17:23 faheem: it would not. 19:17:33 faheem: that said, few are. 19:17:47 faheem: ccl lacks a useful cl:step operator. 19:18:09 Otherwise, yes, it's rather complete. 19:18:53 pjb: ok, can you suggest a modification of that working? 19:18:56 mostly complete, perhaps? 19:19:18 that feels not quite right, somehow 19:19:24 You can always use com.informatimago.common-lisp.lisp.stepper:step. 19:19:47 maybe fairly complete? 19:19:53 pjb: ok. 19:20:06 faheem: indeed, anyways, cl:step is mostly implementation defined. cl:step in ccl is still conforming! 19:20:33 pjb: so, opinions on wording? 19:20:46 the standard allows the definition and implementation of subset of CL and of superset of CL. 19:22:58 pjb: do you use ccl a lot? 19:26:01 Yes. 19:26:14 pjb: what is the simplest way of run ccl on a "non supported" platform? maybe running a "supported" virtaul guest? .. there is some other solution? -thanks- 19:26:17 Currently, it's my main implementation, the one I get by default with M-x slime 19:26:47 What non suppored platform? It runs almost everywhere :-) 19:27:03 Otherwise, running it in Qemu can be a good solution. 19:27:51 (-: pjb ..yes .. but I have to run a virtual guest like, to say, windows XP on qemu? 19:28:03 It had support for ppc and mc680x0, it supports x86 and arm. It must be one of the easiest native CL implementation to port. 19:28:33 pnpuff: I don't understand. What's your situation? 19:29:44 now I'm on a non suppoorted platform (not linux, not freebsd, not windows, not ...) what I have to do to run ccl? 19:30:29 What is the simplest way to run ccl on a non supported platform? 19:30:37 is clear the question? 19:31:00 Is it a unix system? 19:31:18 Or rather, what system, what processor is it? 19:31:48 If Qemu runs there, yes, it would be the simpliest way to run it. 19:32:17 yes a unix-like system 19:32:25 sure.. :-) 19:32:27 And what processor? 19:32:52 an old one (the processor is supported) 19:33:50 First try Qemu. If Qemu runs on your system, you can have ccl running in a couple of hours. 19:34:08 Otherwise, consider porting ccl to your process/system. 19:34:22 pjb: I have to emulate linux, to say, in qemu to run ccl? 19:34:31 or there is a simplest way? 19:34:32 pjb: i see. for some reason i thought you mostly used sbcl 19:34:35 But clisp or ecl may be easier to port, if you don't need specifically ccl, but any CL could do. 19:34:38 ..maybe.. 19:34:53 Yes, you will have to load a system in Qemu to run ccl. The easiest is linux. 19:35:15 pjb: any other solution? 19:35:54 pnpuff: try clisp and ecl. They're also amongst the most widely ported implementations. And abcl, if you have a JVM on your system. 19:36:28 pjb: I do not need a full linux system to run ccl! .. or not? 19:36:43 Just the kernel and mount(1). 19:37:03 But it's easiest to take a disk image with a full linux installed. 19:37:04 pjb: this is better 19:37:15 pjb: is too easy! 19:37:22 Check: https://www.informatimago.com/linux/emacs-on-user-mode-linux.html 19:37:30 the same can be done with any lisp implementation. 19:37:48 Actually with CL, you have ffi, so you can call mount(2) with ffi instead of mount(1). 19:40:09 pjb: maybe I've need of some others basical linux commands.. 19:40:36 Well, once you have a lisp REPL, you don't really need anything else. 19:40:57 cd , pwd , rm ... not needed? 19:41:20 use the com.informatimago.common-lisp.interactive.* packages. 19:41:31 rm = delete-file 19:41:38 ls = directory 19:41:39 etc. 19:41:54 (com.informatimago.common-lisp.interactive.browser:ls) 19:42:34 pjb: sorry, but I do not like packages that i do not understand:( 19:42:49 pnpuff: the sources are there for you to understand. 19:43:14 that is true.. 19:51:31 pjb: I have need of a "bare" embedded-like system to run ccl, there is any quick solution? 19:52:01 not LFS (: 19:54:15 nor tomsrtbt.. there is some other solution? -yhanks- 19:54:18 *thanks 19:55:26 pnpuff: https://www.informatimago.com/linux/emacs-on-user-mode-linux.html 19:55:31 s/emacs/ccl/ 20:00:35 If only I had more time, I'd do just that, take a linux kernel, and integrate and write a whole user space system in lisp. 20:00:58 There's a X server written in CL somewhere. 20:01:00 etc. 20:02:18 The file system could be accessed only with LOGICAL-PATHNAMEs! :-) 20:04:06 pjb: i do not understand.. anyway would be a great thing 20:04:09 (-: 20:05:02 Well, again, do the recipe on emacs-on-user-mode-linux, and see what it is about. Then do the same with ccl. 20:06:12 ok, but a curiosity: why LOGICAL? 20:06:29 before -PATHNAMEs? 20:07:44 pathnames are pathnames! logic is logic.. i do not understand. 20:07:48 CL logical pathnames are a uniform syntax for accessing file systems with multiple different pathname syntaxes. Nowadays there aren't very many, mostly just Unix and Windows, but there used to be more complicated naming 20:09:50 People are afraid of logical pathnames, but they're nice actually. What's bad is the variations in the mapping to physical pathnames. 20:12:56 in the sense that the unix file system provide a logical organization of files? 20:14:02 a logical slice so, or not? 20:14:08 Linux: /home/wws/lisp/foo.lisp, Windows: c:\users\wws\lisp\foo.lisp, logical: home:lisp;foo.lisp on both 20:14:28 potentially. Of course, you have to DEFINE the "HOME" logical host 20:18:29 "HOME" is the "highest level directory"? 20:19:44 No, just a "highest level". It's a logical host name. 20:21:07 so HOME is sometimes even . (the current directory) ? 20:21:11 If you build your system with logical pathnames, you can have one place that maps logical to OS for each OS and use uniform syntax in your code. Very useful for preference directories, which live in a different place on each SOS 20:21:14 OS 20:23:36 Each process can have its own set of logical hosts. 20:23:42 Instant sandboxing :-) 20:25:12 billstclair: why there is a ";" in home:lisp;foo.lisp ? 20:25:28 semi-colon separates logical directory names 20:25:42 colon separates the logical host from the list of logical directories 20:41:06 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-90-138.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #ccl 20:41:27 Fare [~fare@31.37.158.224] has joined #ccl 20:44:53 pjb: i cannot use the cp -a /dev dev command to boldly copy the dev directory, as described in "Initialize a root_fs with at least 150 MB" because my host have maybe a not "compatible" /dev directory. 20:45:43 maybe is better a different solution.. or not? 20:51:37 Hans-Martin [~quassel@2001:4dd0:ff00:9100:3447:727c:3306:2090] has joined #ccl 21:00:23 -!- pnpuff [~dioxirane@gateway/tor-sasl/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:48:30 -!- Fare [~fare@31.37.158.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:57:27 Fare [~fare@31.37.158.224] has joined #ccl 22:04:36 -!- Fare [~fare@31.37.158.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:09:55 Fare [~fare@31.37.158.224] has joined #ccl 22:15:50 when I start up ccl 1.9 rc1 with my ccl init file (just ql init i think) I get 22:15:54 > Error: Too many arguments in call to #: 22:15:58 > 3 arguments provided, at most 2 accepted. 22:19:47 Maybe you can use ccl's integrated debugger to debug that. 22:20:18 gbyers [~gb@c-68-35-55-248.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #ccl 22:30:45 -!- Hans-Martin [~quassel@2001:4dd0:ff00:9100:3447:727c:3306:2090] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:43:46 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-90-138.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:08:41 sellout-1 [~Adium@65.101.242.214] has joined #ccl 23:28:19 -!- sellout-1 is now known as sellout 23:34:09 -!- sellout [~Adium@65.101.242.214] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]