00:16:57 bfulgham [n=brent@wsip-72-215-191-226.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #ccl 01:19:53 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-104-96-75.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 01:20:20 rme [n=rme@pool-70-104-96-75.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ccl 03:16:55 -!- mdc_mobile [n=mdc_mobi@c-76-119-233-23.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:16:58 mdc_ [n=mdc_mobi@c-76-119-233-23.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #ccl 03:18:02 -!- mdc_ [n=mdc_mobi@c-76-119-233-23.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:06:16 bheron [n=heron@pool-173-79-31-141.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #ccl 04:06:23 Good evening. 04:06:47 hi 04:35:43 I'm wondering... 04:44:45 The suspense killed me. 04:44:50 -!- gbyers [n=gbyers@c-68-35-15-143.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [] 04:47:07 Hmm... it seems he was the person I was looking for. 04:51:30 So... how much actual demand is there for Lisp these days? 05:02:31 I don't know the answer to that question. There's probably not as much demand for Lisp as there is for ice cream. 05:05:35 I'm just wondering what this is doing on your site, to be honest... http://trac.clozure.com/openmcl/wiki/GNUstepOnWindows. That screenshot doesn't illustrate any of GNUstep's theming capabilities nor does it illustrate the fact that GNUstep can have in window menus. 05:08:14 That's looks like it was a throw-away page just to show other people that GNUstep ran on Windows. Our lisp has an Objective-C bridge, and at one time, the bridge sort of supported GNUstep, but that support has bit-rotted. 05:08:39 We were probably discussing whether to revive it for use on Windows. 05:09:44 I'm GNUstep's current Chief Maintainer. One of my focuses is to improve GNUstep's look and feel. 05:10:46 What do you guys use on Linux, BSD, etc? 05:12:39 Does Clozure have a gui? 05:12:41 We don't have a graphical IDE on anything but Mac OS X at the moment. There's some ongoing work to get the graphical IDE (and Cocoa bridge) working on Windows by using Cocotron. 05:12:47 Ah, okay 05:13:04 So there's no ObjC bridge on Linux, BSD, etc? 05:13:41 So, you're are ONLY targeting Windows? 05:13:47 Windows and Mac OS X. 05:15:12 There's only ObjC bridge support on Mac OS X and we're working on Windows. 05:16:07 As I say, the GNUstep runtime was supported at some point in the past, but it hasn't been kept up-to-date (lack of users, funding, etc.) 05:16:17 Indeed. 05:16:48 All platforms can call C code, of course. 05:16:52 It's not the "GNUstep runtime" it's GCC's ObjC runtime. :) Have you thought about support for Clang? 05:18:08 It would be interesting to take a look at that code to see if it can be fixed. 05:18:27 (for me, I mean...) 05:20:00 http://trac.clozure.com/openmcl/browser/trunk/source/objc-bridge/ 05:20:23 http://trac.clozure.com/openmcl/browser/trunk/source/objc-bridge/objc-runtime.lisp in particular. It's pretty grotty stuff, though. 05:23:36 It's been a while since i looked in depth at lisp. 05:27:22 That code is really hairy. It's not easy to understand what's going on. 05:29:07 I'd like to see the gnu-objc runtime work again, but getting time to work on it is going to be really tough. 05:29:36 Rather, I'd like to see CCL support the gnu-objc runtime. I'm sure the gnu-objc runtime works. 05:30:13 The nibs load under GNUstep in cocoa-ide. Only a couple of them don't work. 05:30:21 (I just tried them with Gorm) 05:30:41 -!- jauaor [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has left #ccl 05:31:23 rme, if I get time, I'll take a look at it. I might have some questions though. I haven't been into lisp for a long time. 05:31:45 The runtime hasn't changed all that much over the past few years. 05:33:10 I haven't even tried building the bridge using the gnu-objc runtime, so I honestly don't know what state it's in. 05:38:30 Getting it working probably would only take a couple of days for someone familiar with the code. It'd be great if someone would fund that work, but absent that, I'm not sure when/if someone at Clozure will work on it. 05:40:49 Naturally, we'd love to accept patches, but as a practical matter, I'm not sure if anyone else will want to make the time investment required to understand the bridge code sufficiently well in order to do that. 06:26:51 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-104-96-75.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 07:36:43 sellout [n=greg@62.38.61.146] has joined #ccl 07:46:05 Modius_ [n=Modius@24.174.112.56] has joined #ccl 07:48:19 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@24.174.112.56] has quit [Client Quit] 07:48:38 Modius [n=Modius@24.174.112.56] has joined #ccl 07:51:59 -!- sellout [n=greg@62.38.61.146] has quit [] 08:26:25 sellout [n=greg@62.38.61.146] has joined #ccl 08:37:29 -!- sellout [n=greg@62.38.61.146] has quit [] 09:10:54 sellout [n=greg@62.38.61.146] has joined #ccl 09:55:46 -!- sellout [n=greg@62.38.61.146] has quit [] 09:56:31 milanj [n=milan@212.200.192.70] has joined #ccl 13:04:07 anRch [n=markmill@nmd.sbx07269.sauguma.wayport.net] has joined #ccl 13:50:15 mdc_mobile [n=mdc_mobi@c-76-119-233-23.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #ccl 13:50:56 -!- mdc_mobile [n=mdc_mobi@c-76-119-233-23.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:51:14 mdc_mobile [n=mdc_mobi@c-76-119-233-23.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #ccl 14:02:09 -!- anRch [n=markmill@nmd.sbx07269.sauguma.wayport.net] has quit [] 14:15:08 -!- milanj [n=milan@212.200.192.70] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:15:48 rme [n=rme@pool-70-104-96-75.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ccl 17:06:21 anRch [n=markmill@208.54.90.21] has joined #ccl 18:18:46 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-104-96-75.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 18:39:13 -!- anRch [n=markmill@208.54.90.21] has quit [] 18:41:15 jauaor [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #ccl 19:28:26 gbyers [n=gbyers@c-68-35-15-143.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #ccl 20:39:43 AgentX [n=x@118.95.41.44] has joined #ccl 20:40:32 How stable and well supported is CCL on Win32 systems? 20:48:40 gbyers, hey... I'd like to try to get the GNU Objective-C runtime working again with CCL. Any pointers on how to build your stuff? 20:54:49 Do (require "OBJC-SUPPORT") and fix what's broken. 21:06:18 -!- mdc [n=mdc@ds9.entity.com] has quit [] 21:06:46 mdc [n=mdc@ds9.entity.com] has joined #ccl 21:07:04 gbyers, okay. I might come back and ask some questions, if I have any. 21:07:33 -!- mdc [n=mdc@ds9.entity.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:07:50 mdc [n=mdc@ds9.entity.com] has joined #ccl 21:09:20 -!- mdc [n=mdc@ds9.entity.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:09:38 mdc [n=mdc@ds9.entity.com] has joined #ccl 21:51:23 -!- mdc_mobile [n=mdc_mobi@c-76-119-233-23.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:51:28 mdc_ [n=mdc_mobi@c-76-119-233-23.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #ccl 22:33:38 -!- mdc_ is now known as mdc_mobile 23:04:03 -!- AgentX [n=x@118.95.41.44] has left #ccl